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Coronavirus - the new strain XXI

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Masks might help, but it’s not the universal panacea some make it out to be. It’s extremely visible though, so suits those who want to see people doing something. Far better would be to make sure those who need to isolate can afford to do, ensure test and trace is doing its job, and make sure the vaccine boosters are rolling out.
On top of that social distancing and mask wearing will undoubtably bring some small gains. It won’t halt a pandemic on its own.
 
Masks might help, but it’s not the universal panacea some make it out to be. It’s extremely visible though, so suits those who want to see people doing something. Far better would be to make sure those who need to isolate can afford to do, ensure test and trace is doing its job, and make sure the vaccine boosters are rolling out.
They may be better, and there needs to be pressure to bring them about, but masks can make a difference. But perhaps more importantly, they serve as a constant reminder that things are definitely NOT back to normal, so people should remain on their guard.
 
All I’m saying re masks is that as long as people are arguing about them rather than sick pay and the state of the testing system then the government’s going to be happy.
 
Probably in bad taste given the amount of abuse that our elected MP's are subjected to but I'd quite happily slap Rees-moog till he cries for nanny


Tory MPs don't need masks as they know each other, says Rees-Mogg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58993387

This is where we've been going wrong! :eek: We should all have been implementing that well known virus mitigation "convivial, fraternal spirit"... apparently. :rolleyes:
 
Masks might help, but it’s not the universal panacea some make it out to be. It’s extremely visible though, so suits those who want to see people doing something. Far better would be to make sure those who need to isolate can afford to do, ensure test and trace is doing its job, and make sure the vaccine boosters are rolling out.
On top of that social distancing and mask wearing will undoubtably bring some small gains. It won’t halt a pandemic on its own.

No, far better off would be to do all of those things! Why you and others make it an 'either or' argument is beyond me. I'm not saying it's a universal panacea, but it does help as does keeping some distance from people and the cost is minimal so why not just ****ing do it!!!!
 
Masks might help, but it’s not the universal panacea some make it out to be.

They have some effect, but only if there is mass uptake or enforcement. A key thing is 98% of masks you see people wearing only have the ability to stop physical droplets, e.g. sneezes etc. They do not protect the wearer at all, you wear them to protect others (to some degree). Now mask wearing isn’t mandatory the only reason to wear one is to protect yourself, and that means a fresh FFP2 or FFP3-grade. That’s where I am now. I wear an FFP2 mask on the tram/train and even then don’t consider myself especially safe as 85%+ of the population do not seem to under the risk factors or who else their behaviour impacts. As ever poor political messaging kills people.

All I’m saying re masks is that as long as people are arguing about them rather than sick pay and the state of the testing system then the government’s going to be happy.

Sick pay? WTF is that?!
 
No, far better off would be to do all of those things! Why you and others make it an 'either or' argument is beyond me.

Errrr, did I not? I usually perceive the phrase ‘on top of that’ to mean in addition to. If it means something else to you I can only apologise.
 
They have some effect, but only if there is mass uptake or enforcement. A key thing is 98% of masks you see people wearing only have the ability to stop physical droplets, e.g. sneezes etc. They do not protect the wearer at all. Now mask wearing isn’t mandatory the only reason to wear one is to protect yourself, and that means a fresh FFP2 or FFP3-grade. That’s where I am now. I wear an FFP2 mask on the tram/train and even then don’t consider myself especially safe as 85%+ of the population do not seem to under the risk factors or who else their behaviour effects.

I know, I spend my days in schools, it’s coughing agogo at the moment. It means that wearing a mask in Tesco feels peculiarly pointless. Still do it though. What I’m also puzzling over is how if child to adult transmission is such an issue, why none of my schools are closed due to lack of staff, and in fact teacher absence seems to be no more of a problem than usual? I’m certainly not seeing the evidence of it in the fifteen or so schools I’m well acquainted with. It’s definitely rife in the kids. It suggests to me at least on my apocryphal evidence that the vaccines are working. Best hope the Saj doesn’t stuff it up.
 
Errrr, did I not? I usually perceive the phrase ‘on top of that’ to mean in addition to. If it means something else to you I can only apologise.

Masks might help, but it’s not the universal panacea some make it out to be. It’s extremely visible though, so suits those who want to see people doing something. Far better would be to

Meaning as an alternative, maybe if you'd added the word also.

make sure those who need to isolate can afford to do, ensure test and trace is doing its job, and make sure the vaccine boosters are rolling out.

On top of that

As well as that argument

social distancing and mask wearing will undoubtably bring some small gains. It won’t halt a pandemic on its own.

The gains aren't that small and no one said it would halt the pandemic. You have trivialised the mask wearing and social distancing part of your statement thereby borderline implying that they are a waste of time.

That is how I read it and I suspect how you intended it.

Anyway I'm off as some of the contributions to this thread are seriously getting on my tits today!
 
I know, I spend my days in schools, it’s coughing agogo at the moment. It means that wearing a mask in Tesco feels peculiarly pointless. Still do it though. What I’m also puzzling over is how if child to adult transmission is such an issue, why none of my schools are closed due to lack of staff, and in fact teacher absence seems to be no more of a problem than usual? I’m certainly not seeing the evidence of it in the fifteen or so schools I’m well acquainted with. It’s definitely rife in the kids. It suggests to me at least on my apocryphal evidence that the vaccines are working. Best hope the Saj doesn’t stuff it up.

Quite literally all but one of my daughter's teachers have been missing this past week including her form tutor. I've no idea how the school is managing to patch things together but they're not allowed to close.
 
Yes, exactly. It’s getting beyond frustrating that all the critical energy is going into masks which are 90% a symbolic issue. Unless sick pay and proper testing are front and centre I just don’t think it’s a serious discussion.
As has been discussed on here on many occasions, there is no one silver bullet. We need to be doing many things to reduce the damage that Covid is doing to the UK population.

I would still argue that installing proper ventilation (meets the standard of keeping CO2 at 800 ppm or less or an equivalent number of air in room changes per hour e.g. through open windows, forced ventilation, filters in rooms, mechanical heat recovery ventilation) in schools, government buildings and workplaces where practical, is an important part of this. SAGE and iSAGE have access to the research and so could and should be making clear recommendations as to what is required.

SAGE and iSAGE could do likewise with modelling testing requirements and effect of sick pay (some human behaviour modelling required) on reducing the damage that the virus is doing.
 
What I’m also puzzling over is how if child to adult transmission is such an issue, why none of my schools are closed due to lack of staff, and in fact teacher absence seems to be no more of a problem than usual? I’m certainly not seeing the evidence of it in the fifteen or so schools I’m well acquainted with. It’s definitely rife in the kids. It suggests to me at least on my apocryphal evidence that the vaccines are working.

This is very positive. I know you’ve both had it and been multi-jabbed, I assume most if not all other teachers are double-jabbed now, and a fair number may have had it too, so I guess there is a chance we are at a kind of very temporary ‘herd immunity’ stage at least within teachers and NHS front-line staff.

Obviously this is a precarious state as covid 19 is an evolving threat and there is still a very real risk a strain will ‘jump’ the vaccines. This being my key worry regarding the government’s relaxed and typically anti-science viewpoint with regards to masks, social distancing etc. It costs nothing and will certainly not increase transmission. I feel fairly safe right now as after the booster I’m likely at peak immunity, but all it takes is a mutation to make that jump and I’ll be back in full lockdown/isolation for another year!

PS I was typing this at the time Gav’s post above appeared which sadly does appear to negate the first paragraph.
 
This is very positive. I know you’ve both had it and been multi-jabbed, I assume most if not all other teachers are jabbed now, and a fair number may have had it too, so I guess there is a chance we are at least at a kind of very temporary ‘herd immunity’ stage at least within teachers and NHS front-line staff.

I have had the mother and father of all colds though. My herd immunity to those seems to have gone for a burton. Lots of lateral flows and a PCR to be sure, but all ok so far. What I can say is that the people I’ve encountered who have had it post vaccination are far less ill than I was in January.
 
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