Yes, agreed it's important to ensure the stands/speakers are the same height when comparing them.
Wood speaker stands; anyone compared them to metal?
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
Tony L
Administrator
As I say that won’t be possible as I’ve no intention either buying a pair of £400 stands of the wrong height or taking an angle-grinder to a £700 pair of Falcon LS3/5A stands!
This isn’t scientific research, I don’t get paid anything like enough for that! It is just a discussion thread seeking other’s experiences and opinions. As with anything I’ll end up thinking about it for a long while and then decide whether to take a risk or not. The money isn’t an issue, to be honest I’ve been extraordinarily lazy of late (I think covid isolation etc has done my head in to a degree) and I haven’t invoiced trade accounts for six months or so, so there’s probably a couple of £k just sitting there waiting to ring-up!
This isn’t scientific research, I don’t get paid anything like enough for that! It is just a discussion thread seeking other’s experiences and opinions. As with anything I’ll end up thinking about it for a long while and then decide whether to take a risk or not. The money isn’t an issue, to be honest I’ve been extraordinarily lazy of late (I think covid isolation etc has done my head in to a degree) and I haven’t invoiced trade accounts for six months or so, so there’s probably a couple of £k just sitting there waiting to ring-up!
vln
Shuns mooks. And MQA.
@Tony L I haven't followed the thread in detail but I understand these have not yet been mentioned:
https://www.rogers-hifi.uk/rogers-ls-speaker-stands
(Not cheap though)
I came across them when I toyed with the idea of dipping my toe into the LS3/5a world, as you do.
https://www.rogers-hifi.uk/rogers-ls-speaker-stands
(Not cheap though)
I came across them when I toyed with the idea of dipping my toe into the LS3/5a world, as you do.
ToTo Man
the band not the dog
I hadn't realised you were using the Falcon stands for your JR149s, I assumed you were still using the R4s, hence my comment about replacing the R4s with a wooden stand that is the same height as the R4....
Tony L
Administrator
The R4s are the same height (600mm) as the Falcon stands.
I have too many stands at present and the R4s top-plate matches nothing (it is designed for a ProAc 1SC, DB1 etc, so is deep and quite narrow). The Falcon stands obviously fit the 3/5As perfectly, they also fit the Spendor S3/5R if I rotated them 90 degrees, and are a better fit under the 149s than the R4s, but the baseplate still overhangs a bit.
I’ll likely sell the R4s as to be honest they are right on the limit, maybe beyond, what I feel I can safely carry up/down stairs on my own. I’m aware of my limits here, I very nearly killed myself carrying a Wharfdale Sand Filled Baffle SFB/3 upstairs a couple of years ago, got about half way up and just ran out of strength/leverage so ended up just standing there for a while with it propped against a stair wondering WTF was my next move! Can’t get it up, can’t get it down, can’t call anyone for help, don’t want to just drop it! Hmmm… Got there in the end a step at a time, but that could have gone very wrong!
The R4s are simply ridiculously heavy - anyone with a mental image of what a high-mass metal stand is just double it. IIRC they are about 25kg each. They are very good though, really amazing under the ProAcs they were designed for. The Falcons are far lighter so a lot easier to deal with, and are still nice stands.
PS If anyone fancies buying a close to mint boxed collection-only pair of R4s drop me a PM!
Tony L
Administrator
Back to the height thing I googled Heybrook HBS1 stands just now as from memory HB2s are about the same physical size as a JR149. Maybe just a smidge bigger. They are apparently 46cm minus spikes. As such I suspect I’m around 10cm too tall at present. I think 50cm is about the right ballpark here. Obviously this alone will alter the sound, and hopefully in a good way.
ToTo Man
the band not the dog
Your bum must be within a couple of inches of the floor when you listen?! My 600mm Atacama stands are too low for all my standmounts except my JR150 and IMF ALS 40. The tweeters of my JR149, S3/5R2 etc all sit below ear level. I wish I could sit lower but my days of being able to get back up off the floor are long gone and my recent sciatica diagnosis has put the final nail in the coffin for low seating!
Fortunately my room has a 10.5 ft ceiling so I can get away with raising the height of the stands a little without experience too much of a drop in modal output. If it was the dreaded newbuild 8 ft ceiling height then I'd end up with a big hole at 70Hz!
ToTo Man
the band not the dog
Yes, the floor-bounce frequencies will shift and you will also get stronger bass output at your axial height mode which, assuming a 10 to 11 ft ceiling height, will give you a bit of boost around 50Hz-55Hz.
Tony L
Administrator
Yes, a beanbag! This is pretty much eye level on the Falcons. If I do decide to buy yet more stands I’d like them to give a noticeable change in height as I have no plans to get rid of the LS3/5As, so I already have a nice pair of 60cm stands. I tend to like being a bit below a speaker as it gives a sense of height, plus I suspect many integrate better time-wise, though this is a bit too low!
Edit: actually I think that exaggerates it a bit, I think my eye level is just above the bottom wood disk, but below the B110 centre.
That would be good with the 149s. I’d like a bit more bottom end as I sit well away from boundaries. I suspect it could work very well. It would also make for a useful height if I ever end up in a single system situation in the future with the 149s relegated to TV room duties (I tend to lie slouched on the couch). I can see a long term use if they sound good as I’ll never get rid of the 149s (the S3/5s and LS3/5As would definitely go first).
Helen Bach
if it ain't Baroque ...
I didn't say he made glulams, I am saying the term cld is often applied (erroneously) to several layers of different (or the same) materials, glued together. These are glulams, not cld. As you point out, cld is (in its simplest form) made of a layer of material to be damped, then a viscoelastic layer, and finally the constraining layer. BUT, cld only works if all the layers bend a little, to stretch the VE layer, and thereby incur losses by shearing. And that 'very thin' layer is also important, (as is the thin panels). If you look at his demo of how things bend (a very good illustration, IMHO) you will see how much effort is needed. I'm sure those forces are not produced in a loudspeaker cabinet. For cld to work properly, all layers have to be thin, very thin. Of course, all this is academic if single layer products are used which have greater damping ability. The ones illustrated/demo'ed do not seem to have much damping, cld or not.
cj66
pfm Member
When I owned Opera Primas ( original model ) I had them mounted on metal stands but had reservations about the sound balance, mainly a bit of a hole in upper bass area that sounded off.
I tried a pair of Stands Unique supports and the speakers really snapped to it, fullish and even toned with plenty of scale. A very real improvement.
Roll on many years and I have ( still do ) Opera Mezza 2012s. Again metal stands and the sound was dry and hard, very un- Opera like. At the time I had no access to a choice of stands so I dismantled my single pillar metal jobbies and simply substituted wooden uprights for the metal ones.
Job was a goodun! I was rewarded with a much fleshier presentation with natural tones and greater sound stage. One happy bunny.
I tried a pair of Stands Unique supports and the speakers really snapped to it, fullish and even toned with plenty of scale. A very real improvement.
Roll on many years and I have ( still do ) Opera Mezza 2012s. Again metal stands and the sound was dry and hard, very un- Opera like. At the time I had no access to a choice of stands so I dismantled my single pillar metal jobbies and simply substituted wooden uprights for the metal ones.
Job was a goodun! I was rewarded with a much fleshier presentation with natural tones and greater sound stage. One happy bunny.
Tony L
Administrator
That’s certainly the direction I’d like to gently nudge the 149s. In this system they are seriously good, remarkably open and clear, but just a little upper-mid forward and lean. A little more warmth and bloom would be very welcome. I’m not that bothered about overdoing it a bit if that is the general wood trait as moving them a little further from the back wall is obviously no issue.
My humble opinion is that wood is good.
About 15 years ago I had the occasion to visit a chap who owned a Garrard 401 who got it new because he worked there as a former employee. When I got into his house I noticed he had a pair of speakers about the size of LS3/5as mounted on two solid hand carved stands about 30"-36" high. They were carved from a single lump of seasoned oak and given a oil finish. His system was purely a Garrard 401 run by some tube system which I forget the name of but boy it did sound the business.
It certainly looked good and much better than the usual black metal stands which always looks like something from the 1980s.
I have a pair of KEF LXs sitting on a wood sideboard (MDF with a veneer) in the Spanish villa and in all fairness they do sound good.
Give it a try, if you don't like them, you can always sell them on.
About 15 years ago I had the occasion to visit a chap who owned a Garrard 401 who got it new because he worked there as a former employee. When I got into his house I noticed he had a pair of speakers about the size of LS3/5as mounted on two solid hand carved stands about 30"-36" high. They were carved from a single lump of seasoned oak and given a oil finish. His system was purely a Garrard 401 run by some tube system which I forget the name of but boy it did sound the business.
It certainly looked good and much better than the usual black metal stands which always looks like something from the 1980s.
I have a pair of KEF LXs sitting on a wood sideboard (MDF with a veneer) in the Spanish villa and in all fairness they do sound good.
Give it a try, if you don't like them, you can always sell them on.
Stuart Frazer
pfm Member
John
Rack’em Up!
It seems 60cm is the height of most stands intended for 7 litre monitors, I measured the two in my home. Anything shorter would be intended for a speaker with a larger footprint. Going custom is likely the only solution if you wish to go shorter, but selling them on in the future might be a challenge if the buyer prefers to have the tweeter at the “right” height.
John
Rack’em Up!
I see from a photo you posted upthread you have spikes on the speaker stands. Have you tried the stands without the spikes and found it sounds worse?
Copperjacket
pfm Member
Why not go to your local carpet centre and pick up a length of the heavy duty cardboard centre tube and cut to size and then add chipboard or cork end plates?
Tony L
Administrator
I don’t think I’ve ever stated they were a ‘7 litre monitor’, they are certainly a fair bit bigger than an LS3/5A. They are 38cm high. From memory they are about the same height as the original Heybrook HB2s, hence my finding the height of the Heybrook stands (46cm) a few posts upthread. Another example is the Naim SBL which are apparently 89cm high. The JR149 on a 50cm stand would be 88cm high. That would get the tweeter into the same general ballpark. I’m not going to go through and assess every popular speaker, but I really don’t think I’m way off the height mark here.
Looking at Jim Rogers’s own stands (link) and factoring the speaker is 38cm makes me suspect they were something between about 46 & 50cm, i.e. within the general area I am considering. Annoyingly I can’t find a definitive figure, but it looks about right. This is actually far more interesting to me as it may indicate the height he voiced the bass response for.
I don’t need to factor resale in this case as I will never be selling these speakers. All I’m interested in is whether it works or not. I have no interest in orthodoxy or convention, my view is increasingly that things went rather wrong with audio thinking quite a long time ago now! Regardless I do certainly want to optimise the height for more possibilities than the beanbag!
Unfortunately not easy to do in this specific case as these stands have large screw-heads and spike bushings underneath, they do not sit flat. They are also in the high-mass school, so it likely wouldn’t be an especially relevant finding. I have certainly found removing spiked equipment stands, cones etc from my system to be beneficial on the whole. These are the only ones remaining in any system. One reason I am attracted to the tripod stands is they will obviously sit far more stably on a carpeted floor than any four-legged un-spiked option.
Interesting idea, but I suspect it would behave very differently to the open frame tripod I’m considering. I’d likely just end up confusing myself. This is just a do it/don’t do it thing really. I don’t really want to assess things based on different things!
