Pics are beyond me, they are Ebony Wave, one of the newer colours.
The search for a new speaker begins
- Thread starter Bronzeage
- Start date
Pics are beyond me, they are Ebony Wave, one of the newer colours.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Ta, it's the other finish I fancy - Black Vine, need to shift a few boxes first. Either S40 or ProAc DB1 are the 2 want to hear
We are in the same boat. I just switched back to the Tablettes, it is hopeless, they are just too good!
Curtis
pfm Member
What are too good the Dyns or the proac’s?
The Proacs. I am more than a little stunned, two speakers that cost treble and double of the little Tablette have been destroyed. Don’t get me wrong, they have their strengths, but neither sound like real instruments and voices like the Proac does, not even close.
Not sure any Proac dealers send the DB1 or D2 out for demo, but I will ask around, otherwise go to a store with my Tablettes to directly compare.
Cereal Killer
432
Think Music Matters do proacs on dem. Try the D2 and D2Rs - the DB1s have a similar signature but won’t play as loud.
Cereal Killer
432
You should also try get a listen to those Kudos S10s I linked to earlier. They are just like bigger tablettes IMHO
I am getting wary of stretching all my budget on just speakers, but if it comes to it, I will give them a go, cheers.
Cereal Killer
432
There’s a used pair for 1999 at a dealers so half your original budget!
Edit: they’re sold now!!
Edit: they’re sold now!!
Subito
pfm Member
Stewart Tyler is a genius speaker designer, if I was shopping in your price range ProAc is the first place I’d look.
The Dyns have kept improving, bungs no longer needed, but I can tell they are never going to be what I am after, so they are going back.
Have to say the service from Premium Sound has been excellent, and a shout out to Keith as well, his heart is in the right place.
As for me, will wait until I can go to a Proac dealer with my Tablettes to compare with DB1 and D2. Maybe even the K1 if total madness takes over.
Have to say the service from Premium Sound has been excellent, and a shout out to Keith as well, his heart is in the right place.
As for me, will wait until I can go to a Proac dealer with my Tablettes to compare with DB1 and D2. Maybe even the K1 if total madness takes over.
Muttley2
pfm Member
I went through a similar process about a year ago. My Tab Ref 8 Signatures I just couldn't get to work in my new house anything above tick over just excited the room and bass was boom and gloom. I demoed the Tab 10 DB1 and DB2 and being a Proac fan I found I just didn't like any of them. The Tab 10 for me just didn't rock and the DB1 and 2 needed to be away for boundaries to stop the boom. I don't think the demo room I was in was particularly good but it was enough to make me look elsewhere. I eventually settled on Amphion Argon 3S which have a rear passive radiator so were much more forgiving in my setup. Just as good as my little Proacs before but now I have decent bass in comparison. I would say the Amphions are smoother than the Proacs and possibly not quite as 3D imaging wise but with a bit of subsequent tweaking I no longer miss my Ref 8 sigs. Good luck with the search, half the fun is having a demo
Room boom is not a big issue for me, one of the useful things I did find out is the sweet spot to place speakers, certainly not in the corners, but not so far out as to make the room messy. Guess I will find out if the bigger Proacs behave.
Back to life!
Somewhat amusingly, kind of back where I started, as I have ended up with the Proac D18s. I could not get these under control before, but with the Micromega amp, it’s just about perfect. Kind of odd, but the bass is more controlled than the Tablettes, and the room can take the scale. Quite a step up in clarity too.
Probably the final touch will be to change the cable LS-80 at some point.
Will try to compare to the D20R in the future, but content for now.
Somewhat amusingly, kind of back where I started, as I have ended up with the Proac D18s. I could not get these under control before, but with the Micromega amp, it’s just about perfect. Kind of odd, but the bass is more controlled than the Tablettes, and the room can take the scale. Quite a step up in clarity too.
Probably the final touch will be to change the cable LS-80 at some point.
Will try to compare to the D20R in the future, but content for now.
Well, I got back on the trail, turned out to be an interesting experience.
I chose Criterion Audio in Cambridge as the dealer as they are not too far away from London, and have most Proac models, as well other makes that might be a suitable alternative (PMC, Spendor, Kef, Falcon).
They allowed me to take my amp,speakers and cabling to do direct comparisons.
Very friendly and knowledgeable staff, no pressure to buy, they want happy customers.
There were three different rooms of differing size and shape, this turned out to be crucial, as the same speaker could sound very different. The initial room turned out to be a bad match for mine, but the smallest one turned out to be a very good one.
Anyway, in that initial room, the speakers that impressed the most were, in this order, the Proac D30R, Spendor D7.3, PMC 25.24i, PMC 25.23i. The Proac D20R, DB3 and Falcon LS3/5a pretty much got swallowed in the room.
The Spendor had a very detailed sound, and really excellent bass, and looked good too. They allowed me to take a pair home, just to get a good flavour of how they sounded. I did like them a lot, but compared to the Proac D18s that I own, despite having a much preferable bass, there was something missing in the midrange, and the treble was sticking on the tweeters, which I found very distracting. Having said that, I could have lived with them, they are super easy to place and don’t boom.
So next, I tried the D30Rs. They looked a whole lot bigger in my room (18x15ft), and the sound was biiiig, epic even. A bit too epic! I could feel the air pressure, and the bass was rattling the furniture. They sounded glorious though, but the Mrs was not having them, based on their size and the sanity of everybody else in the house.
I was a bit deflated, but, somewhat impressed by the lively and fun sound we heard from the PMC 25.23i, and their diminutive size, tried them next.
Initially I thought these might be the ones, but the more I listed, the more I became uneasy. Very forward and detailed, and impressive lower bass, but for me lacking in body, and kind of artificial sounding, especially compared to Proac. No doubt there are combinations that could work really well with them, but at £4K a pair, did not think they represented good value.
After giving my feedback, we decided to give the Proac D2RS a shot, and have another get together to take stock.
Alas, they did not sound like a smaller D30, much darker sounding, and very strong mid bass, too much for me. They sounded good very close up, but that was not how I would place them in reality. I really wanted to like these more, but after a solid week with them, I knew they were not for me.
So back to the store, this time we decided to try the smaller room. I was thinking of trading in my Tablettes, but one of the guys set them up in that room with a Naim Atom, and put them on decent Atacama HMS stands.
I was blown away how good they sounded, and I think he knew I would be. A comparison with the DB3 (meant to be its replacement) showed them to be very different, the DB3s being much softer sounding, less resolving and oddly, weaker bass. I guess they are aimed at somebody who really wants to relax in a small room.
Then we tried the new Tablette SE, which sounded nothing like the Anniversary and even less like the DB3. More detailed, but very little bass. I kind of enjoyed them, but found them somewhat fatiguing in comparison. Could be great in a very small room.
The Falcons were smoother, warmer, but still sounding a bit lightweight. Think they need either tube amps or very high end solid state to get the best out of them, but not a direction I was heading in.
At this point I thought I had come full circle, but then it was suggested I try the forgotten about D20Rs in the smaller room. I was not too hopeful given how I got on with the D2s, but as it turned out, that was a bingo moment. They sound very different, the bass was powerful but way more in control, wider and deeper image, more lively. OK, took them for a home trial, the end result being I bought a pair, they are just what I was looking for all along. The have the extra clarity and refinement above the D18s, and the bass does not boom, the sound completely escapes the speakers, unlike Spendor/PMC, with the electronics I use (Moon).
I kept the Tablettes because they were too good to give away, there will be times when I will want to give them a spin, but I finally found speakers that I prefer to them.
Anyway, the age old lesson is - demo at home, and try as many as you can bear! There is something for everyone.
I chose Criterion Audio in Cambridge as the dealer as they are not too far away from London, and have most Proac models, as well other makes that might be a suitable alternative (PMC, Spendor, Kef, Falcon).
They allowed me to take my amp,speakers and cabling to do direct comparisons.
Very friendly and knowledgeable staff, no pressure to buy, they want happy customers.
There were three different rooms of differing size and shape, this turned out to be crucial, as the same speaker could sound very different. The initial room turned out to be a bad match for mine, but the smallest one turned out to be a very good one.
Anyway, in that initial room, the speakers that impressed the most were, in this order, the Proac D30R, Spendor D7.3, PMC 25.24i, PMC 25.23i. The Proac D20R, DB3 and Falcon LS3/5a pretty much got swallowed in the room.
The Spendor had a very detailed sound, and really excellent bass, and looked good too. They allowed me to take a pair home, just to get a good flavour of how they sounded. I did like them a lot, but compared to the Proac D18s that I own, despite having a much preferable bass, there was something missing in the midrange, and the treble was sticking on the tweeters, which I found very distracting. Having said that, I could have lived with them, they are super easy to place and don’t boom.
So next, I tried the D30Rs. They looked a whole lot bigger in my room (18x15ft), and the sound was biiiig, epic even. A bit too epic! I could feel the air pressure, and the bass was rattling the furniture. They sounded glorious though, but the Mrs was not having them, based on their size and the sanity of everybody else in the house.
I was a bit deflated, but, somewhat impressed by the lively and fun sound we heard from the PMC 25.23i, and their diminutive size, tried them next.
Initially I thought these might be the ones, but the more I listed, the more I became uneasy. Very forward and detailed, and impressive lower bass, but for me lacking in body, and kind of artificial sounding, especially compared to Proac. No doubt there are combinations that could work really well with them, but at £4K a pair, did not think they represented good value.
After giving my feedback, we decided to give the Proac D2RS a shot, and have another get together to take stock.
Alas, they did not sound like a smaller D30, much darker sounding, and very strong mid bass, too much for me. They sounded good very close up, but that was not how I would place them in reality. I really wanted to like these more, but after a solid week with them, I knew they were not for me.
So back to the store, this time we decided to try the smaller room. I was thinking of trading in my Tablettes, but one of the guys set them up in that room with a Naim Atom, and put them on decent Atacama HMS stands.
I was blown away how good they sounded, and I think he knew I would be. A comparison with the DB3 (meant to be its replacement) showed them to be very different, the DB3s being much softer sounding, less resolving and oddly, weaker bass. I guess they are aimed at somebody who really wants to relax in a small room.
Then we tried the new Tablette SE, which sounded nothing like the Anniversary and even less like the DB3. More detailed, but very little bass. I kind of enjoyed them, but found them somewhat fatiguing in comparison. Could be great in a very small room.
The Falcons were smoother, warmer, but still sounding a bit lightweight. Think they need either tube amps or very high end solid state to get the best out of them, but not a direction I was heading in.
At this point I thought I had come full circle, but then it was suggested I try the forgotten about D20Rs in the smaller room. I was not too hopeful given how I got on with the D2s, but as it turned out, that was a bingo moment. They sound very different, the bass was powerful but way more in control, wider and deeper image, more lively. OK, took them for a home trial, the end result being I bought a pair, they are just what I was looking for all along. The have the extra clarity and refinement above the D18s, and the bass does not boom, the sound completely escapes the speakers, unlike Spendor/PMC, with the electronics I use (Moon).
I kept the Tablettes because they were too good to give away, there will be times when I will want to give them a spin, but I finally found speakers that I prefer to them.
Anyway, the age old lesson is - demo at home, and try as many as you can bear! There is something for everyone.
halvis
pfm Member
Good choice, I demoed D2d speakers along with other ProAcs, PMC and Graham Speakers. Graham’s were nice but not worth the £1500 extra. The D2 was a cut above everything else.
I found the D2 pretty much as you described, very coherent, fast, fun and with superb imaging. You were lucky to get a pair as there were many people waiting 6 months or more earlier in the year, I think stock was expected in August though so hopefully everyone is sorted now.
I would have gone for a pair myself but then a nice pair of Response 2.5 landed on my lap. Different, but probably fill my room better.
Enjoy
I found the D2 pretty much as you described, very coherent, fast, fun and with superb imaging. You were lucky to get a pair as there were many people waiting 6 months or more earlier in the year, I think stock was expected in August though so hopefully everyone is sorted now.
I would have gone for a pair myself but then a nice pair of Response 2.5 landed on my lap. Different, but probably fill my room better.
Enjoy
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There is one speaker I forgot to mention, the Proac K1. They are very big for standmounts, sadly too big for my room (and with their matching stands, too expensive), but listening to instrumental music through them made the hairs on my neck stand up, very real sounding, resolving but in a natural way. If I ever have the space and the money, I would explore the K range for sure.
Interesting and well-written writeup Bronzeage. I’m surprised how different the various ProAc models sounded in your demos. I’ve had a pair of D20Rs for a couple of years and am still impressed. Detailed, clear, great bass, no boom, very “together” sounding in my 14 x 11 ft room
Well, I did not think I would be resurrecting this thread, as I really thought the D20R where the ‘one’. In a way, they are, just not the ‘one’ for my room, they have taken up duty in the much larger living room. Why? Well, it’s not because of tone, they nail that on the head. It really comes down to that troublesome bass. At times it was just fine, but too often, I dunno, it was all just too dark and a bit thuddy, and at lower levels, the ribbons had on odd way of dispersing sound, especially in comparison to D18s.
The D18s are pretty much perfect in terms of bass and scale when positioned optimally, but the top end is just rough sounding in comparison to D20R or Tablettes.
So it’s back to the Tablette Anniversary for now, and not likely to change until next year. I probably could live with them forever if I had to, but I am going to try and home demo the following:
Kudos Super S10 (based on Cereal Killer’s thoughts)
Sonus Faber Olympica Nova 1 (the bigger ones I heard were frankly stunning)
Proac K1 (if they fit)
Spendor Classic 3/1 and 2/3
Focal Sopra 1
The change to a Moon amp has given the Tablettes more useable volume, so there is that at least.
The D18s are pretty much perfect in terms of bass and scale when positioned optimally, but the top end is just rough sounding in comparison to D20R or Tablettes.
So it’s back to the Tablette Anniversary for now, and not likely to change until next year. I probably could live with them forever if I had to, but I am going to try and home demo the following:
Kudos Super S10 (based on Cereal Killer’s thoughts)
Sonus Faber Olympica Nova 1 (the bigger ones I heard were frankly stunning)
Proac K1 (if they fit)
Spendor Classic 3/1 and 2/3
Focal Sopra 1
The change to a Moon amp has given the Tablettes more useable volume, so there is that at least.
Alex S
carbon based lifeform
Interesting thread since I’ve had and had extended dems of various monitors, some almost cults: AE1s, Shahinian Super Elves, Dynaudio Craffts. Listening to my Tabs right now and they do so much right.
One speaker that I probably prefer (I have 2 pairs) are Audio Note AX2s. And another, that I think I will prefer and get to try tomorrow are the Tannoy Autograph Minis.
I’m surprised you’re not adding any iteration of LS3/5a to your list.
One speaker that I probably prefer (I have 2 pairs) are Audio Note AX2s. And another, that I think I will prefer and get to try tomorrow are the Tannoy Autograph Minis.
I’m surprised you’re not adding any iteration of LS3/5a to your list.
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