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Tesla ‘Autopilot’.

Tony L

Administrator


Some very interesting discussion on the concept, practicalities and even human psychology of ‘auto drive’ vehicles from iPad Rehab’s Jessa Jones and Right To Repair advocate Louis Rossmann. I suspect this is on its way to a street near us all. Maybe even rushed out to HGVs given the ongoing Brexit debacle.

It does not go well for the deer.

PS I’ve no idea if this feature is actually legal in the UK yet.
 
The problem is that you can't have a reasoned discussion round Tesla because a lot of the owners have been totally indoctrinated into the cult of Musk and cannot have a dissenting word uttered against the brand or the man.
Self drive is an issue, the adaptive cruise and phantom braking is a real issue - they should join forces with one of the big manufacturers to get this 'Buck Rogers' stuff right - and safe.
 
That’s all covered in the videos. Both of them own Teslas, but are miles away from fans/cult members (Louis calls his ‘Meme Car’, constantly swears at ‘Mrs Musk’ (the sat-nav) and generally takes the piss right out of it). Phantom breaking is mentioned, though what happened to the deer is conceptually very interesting as the car took no evasive action at all despite being the only vehicle on the road at the time and not travelling fast. They are both balanced videos. I think Jessa’s angle on the driver psychology is especially interesting, she’s obviously upset at killing the deer, but she makes an excellent point as to just how fast humans adapt to new conveniences etc. It is clearly an imperfect (beta-level) technology at present and it is pretty safe to conclude many drivers are all but asleep at the wheel.
 
It's not enabled or legal in the UK at the moment

Just lane assist ..but hands have to be on the wheel most of the time to stop it turning off

The phantom brake is a real and annoying issue
 
The problem is that you can't have a reasoned discussion round Tesla because a lot of the owners have been totally indoctrinated into the cult of Musk and cannot have a dissenting word uttered against the brand or the man.
Self drive is an issue, the adaptive cruise and phantom braking is a real issue - they should join forces with one of the big manufacturers to get this 'Buck Rogers' stuff right - and safe.

You can try with me. Ownership of around 10 months here and part of the ”late to the party” group having been in with the Germans up to recently.

I have had a few phantom brakes and don’t have full autopilot installed but I know I would not use it even if I did … in its current incarnation. Software is way too random for me. It is great 99% of the time, trouble is over an hour of varied conditions it will make a random over estimate of a potential collision, ie a lorry in a different lane but around a slight bend and assume we are on a collision course. If not using active cruise then all you get is bleeping and a red car highlight on the screen but if you are in cruise it will brake severely.

I have learned to drive around it, I do use cruise on undemanding roads (motorways are generally fine) but don’t go anywhere near it anywhere else.

I do like the car although you are paying for the infrastructure and the battery. The quality of the car is poor compared to a similar priced German. The performance is fab but there are only so many times that you can use it.
 
Lane assist deviation and adaptive cruise control has been around for years in the UK. We've had it in a few cars but never used it. Can imagine it might come in handy if you're in the USA or Canada where you can drive for miles without ever seeing another vehicle.

No drama in this country.
 
I have Lane Assist, adaptive cruise control and find them very useful, I always drive with them enabled. I do not use the process of following a curve in the road where the car will steer following the curve or bend.
 
Phantom breaking is mentioned, though what happened to the deer is conceptually very interesting as the car took no evasive action at all despite being the only vehicle on the road at the time and not travelling fast.
I wonder what would have happened if that deer was an elk, or a cow.
I get elephants on the road, you definitely give way.
 
Governments are desperate to be seen to be at forefront of the technology and to make it convenient as possible for tech and auto companies to base themselves in their country/state, they seem to have waived any concerns over safety away and buried heads in silicon.
 
Someone should do a video wherein a Tesla on autopilot drives clean through a life-size cardboard cutout of Elon Musk.
 
Had forums existed in the late 19th/early 20th century we'd have had the same threads around the abominations that are horseless carriages. Autonomous driving is a long way from perfect right now, but it's early days and it will be continuously improved until eventually it becomes the norm and the next generations will wonder what all the fuss was about. I think it's got to be better than sitting there having to waste hours of your life 'driving'... bring it on.
 
The incident a couple of years back when a cyclist pushing their bike across the road was killed (by one of the Uber self-driving test vehicles) was similar in that they were also coming from the side of the road and the car pretty much didn't react at all. In both cases any even mildly attentive driver would have seen the hazard and reacted.

I'm looking forward to reliable fully autonomous cars, but while I've had several cars with driver aids like lane assist and adapative cruise I can't say that I've found them useful at all.
 
Had forums existed in the late 19th/early 20th century we'd have had the same threads around the abominations that are horseless carriages
Do you have any idea how hazardous horse riding and horse drawn transport were? Any advance has to be just that.
 
Do you have any idea how hazardous horse riding and horse drawn transport were? Any advance has to be just that.

Not sure what your comment even really means, but a move to autonomous vehicles will be a huge advance. It's OK as it's human nature to struggle to embrace change so you're not alone, but thank heavens for those of us with more vision.
 
I'm looking forward to reliable fully autonomous cars, but while I've had several cars with driver aids like lane assist and adapative cruise I can't say that I've found them useful at all.
Had forums existed in the late 19th/early 20th century we'd have had the same threads around the abominations that are horseless carriages. Autonomous driving is a long way from perfect right now, but it's early days and it will be continuously improved until eventually it becomes the norm and the next generations will wonder what all the fuss was about. I think it's got to be better than sitting there having to waste hours of your life 'driving'... bring it on.
There is an almost perfect form of autonomous driving already, trains!

As for autos I will likely never own one. Sometimes long drives can be tedious but for the most part I enjoy it quite a lot.
 
Autonomous driving is a long way from perfect right now, but it's early days and it will be continuously improved until eventually it becomes the norm and the next generations will wonder what all the fuss was about. I think it's got to be better than sitting there having to waste hours of your life 'driving'... bring it on.

That’s not the point I was trying to make with the thread. To be honest I’d love to get to the stage where all driving was automated as in the UK alone 1,700 people are killed each year along with a further 150,000 injured by human drivers every year. That is a stat that should be pretty easy to improve upon.

The thing I found interesting in the video was the human psychology aspect highlighted by Jessa (I think she is spot on here) and Louis highlights the fact this is clearly only a beta-level product and Tesla’s advertising is highly dodgy. The way the collision detection failed is highly interesting; the car simply didn’t seem to see a deer, which for those who have little sympathy for animals, is a wheelchair-user/child in push-chair-sized item moving onto the road. There was no evasive action at all despite there being no vehicles behind, in front or ahead on the road. No attempt to break. No attempt at lane change (opposing lane was entirely free). I do advise folk to watch the videos, they each make their point well and none of this is a pro/anti-autopilot argument. They both own Teslas and both use the feature.
 
The Tesla doesn't come out of that too well, or the deer for that matter.

But first you need to know if the Tesla did what it was programmed to do?
  • Would an emergency stop risk being rear-ended by a following truck?
  • Would swerving around the obstacle risk a collision with oncoming traffic or pedestrians?
  • Would the driver wake up and make some counter productive inputs to the steering?
  • Are you 100% sure there are no other vehicles behind you, or oncoming, or in your blind spot, including pedestrians?
  • Without looking at the video again, the rate of approach of the deer looks quite slow. Is it more likely to see the car and turn away? (It's a deer, so, no).
  • If the system recognises that the object is actually "only" a deer, is the lowest risk to actually do nothing and hit the deer? (This is where we enter the moral maze)

Regarding the other point about the effect these systems have on driver reactions, you can see it when you use even a simple cruise-control system. You start to relax, and ease out of your fight-or-flight state. The whole point of these driver aids is to allow you to relax, but the corollary is a reduction in your response times - you react slower and have to brake harder.

Therefore, if you are going to implement a fully autonomous driving option, it has to be bombproof, which is easier said than done.
 
That’s not the point I was trying to make with the thread. To be honest I’d love to get to the stage where all driving was automated as in the UK alone 1,700 people are killed each year along with a further 150,000 injured by human drivers every year. That is a stat that should be pretty easy to improve upon.

The thing I found interesting in the video was the human psychology aspect highlighted by Jessa (I think she is spot on here) and Louis highlights the fact this is clearly only a beta-level product and Tesla’s advertising is highly dodgy. The way the collision detection failed is highly interesting; the car simply didn’t seem to see a deer, which for those who have little sympathy for animals, is a wheelchair-user/child in push-chair-sized item moving onto the road. There was no evasive action at all despite there being no vehicles behind, in front or ahead on the road. No attempt to break. No attempt at lane change (opposing lane was entirely free). I do advise folk to watch the videos, they each make their point well and none of this is a pro/anti-autopilot argument. They both own Teslas and both use the feature.

I totally agree with you and my comment was aimed at the later naysayer comments not yours so apologies. I'll save my musings for another thread.
 


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