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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIV

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eternumviti said:
Oh, and there's no re-write of history in reminding you of Heath's betrayal of the fishing industry, or to put it another way, the EEC's annexation of it as part of the price of accession. It is a matter of historical fact.
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LOL Heath's trade of fishing access as part of a bigger deal for the UK is a "betrayal" - so what's the Brexit direct sell out of UK fishing for fvck all called?
 
notaclue said:
Be warned. Shop very early this Xmas to avoid going hungry and/or getting into a fight in the supermarket over who gets the dusty sprout that's just been spotted on the floor https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...tmas-shoppers-told-amid-fuel-crisis-wvlc9l779
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This is a day that will live on in infamy, for you have just declared ‘Let the Pillaging Commence!’. There’ll be knife fights on the forecourts and hair pulling in the bog roll aisles.

…my favourite line the Times article: “presents under the tree may not meet expectations”.
 
eternumviti said:
Oh, and there's no re-write of history in reminding you of Heath's betrayal of the fishing industry, or to put it another way, the EEC's annexation of it as part of the price of accession. It is a matter of historical fact.
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Damn sovereignty.

The EU did not take power/sovereignty/fish from the UK, it was all willingly handed over/shared by successive democratically elected governments. I assume you voted for many of them.
 
eternumviti said:
That gives us another 15 odd years of this forum thread. Whoopee!
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When you voted for Brexit you were quite happy to accept the lies and the foreign meddling, now lies from politicians are unfortunately legal in a democratic vote but foreign interference most certainly isn’t. So stop calling the vote democratic, it wasn’t.
 
Story on this morning’s Farming Today that pig farms are having to cull pigs because of a shortage of butchers at abattoirs. Apparently around 80% of abattoir workers were Eastern Europeans. Guess what…

So the pigs don’t go to market, they go to rendering or incineration. One farmer was cited as losing hundreds of pigs a week. Not only isn’t this sustainable commercially, it’s an affront to nature to have to kill creatures but don’t consume them. The animal welfare aspect is awful to consider.
 
eternumviti said:
I don't know what makes you think I reached that conclusion. You're off the mark.



Ha! Quite good, but don't give up the old day job yet, Steve :)



There were only two flavours on offer, both bitter, and that was stay or leave. I voted for bitter.

Now if you were to ask what I had hoped for, then my reply would be that it isn't what we're seeing so far. Very early on I stated on one of this thread's predecessors that I thought we would end up with a version of 'controlled borders' that equated to something far closer to free movement, that we would be continuing to pay in against specific priorities, and that against that background a fairly liberal and open FTA would have been achievable. I was interested in the 'Booker' solution, for Britain to seek membership of EFTA and take a place on the EFTA Court. Despite seeing the EU for what it is, I'm afraid I stupidly underestimated its fury, intransigence, and its Machiavellian determination to use everything in its powers to overturn the result, and when that failed, to continue to hold the UK in its regulatory orbit. So too did I not forsee the (successive) British government's woeful and at times seemingly gratuitous ineptitude, nor the two-facedness of Whitehall and the British 'establishment', both of which remained in cahoots with the EU, and manipulatively supportive of its efforts to hold the UK against the result of the referendum.
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To the point about the rather binary good or evil view of the EU, I submit the above post (and most of your previous ones to be fair).

It sounds like more than anything that you are anti-elite and feel let down by the the political classes, whether they be here or in Brussels. It also sounds like you hoped for a Remainer-lite type outcome to the Referendum. The best way to have achieved that would have been to vote in and then work with EU to protect British interests, which is exactly what successive UK governments have been doing since the UK joined the European project (e.g. the veto). Staying in the EU would not only have good for the nation's well-being, it would have been good for its wallet and freedoms (including yours). It would have also levelled up Global Britain and put some added some red, white and blue vibrancy to the flag. It would also have pissed of Putin.
 
Just thought I would post this (cold war Steve):

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Apparently we are now running out of butchers. Boris is planning on issuing some more magic visas to allow 1000 foreign butchers into the UK. Priti is resisting. Time to reinstate FoM.
 
Kirk said:
Apparently we are now running out of butchers. Boris is planning on issuing some more magic visas to allow 1000 foreign butchers into the UK. Priti is resisting. Time to reinstate FoM.
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The EU will soon have at least 1 freedom back while UK passport holders queue up. Excellent.
 
Kirk said:
Apparently we are now running out of butchers. Boris is planning on issuing some more magic visas to allow 1000 foreign butchers into the UK. Priti is resisting. Time to reinstate FoM.
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A fitting tribute to Brexit that the politicians are short of pork and are having to import foreigners to provide it, the irony.
 
SteveS1 said:
Slippery, FFS. You are conflating ceding of fishing rights for greater trade with the use of then wilful abandoning of them for nothing. Get a grip.
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No, I'm not, you are.

Ive just realised that I'm arguing with a different Steve.

Incidentally, when Heath lied us into the EEC in 73 I believe we had the biggest fishing fleet in Europe. We also had 'greater trade' with much of the rest of the world, all of which was slung away, to the very considerable detriment of many of our former trading partners, for membership of the Great European Utopian Project. What we had to gain I'm not entirely sure. The enforced and environmentally utterly destructive CAP and CFP, and the right for the Germans to flog us their cars more easily than they hitherto could. Oh, and the 'right' for those who can afford to do so to buy houses and live in Europe for more than 90 days a year sans visa.

In the meantime Grimsby spent most of the past 50 years forgotten and ignored.

SteveS1 said:
LOL Heath's trade of fishing access as part of a bigger deal for the UK is a "betrayal" - so what's the Brexit direct sell out of UK fishing for fvck all called?
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I shouldnt go LOLing that tasty little morsel around the back streets of Grimsby if I were you. Some gnarled and salty old fishwife will nip up behind you and whip your gills out before you can say "knife".

Kirk said:
Damn sovereignty.

The EU did not take power/sovereignty/fish from the UK, it was all willingly handed over/shared by successive democratically elected governments. I assume you voted for many of them.
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Well, as I said, it was both. The EU demanded the annexation UK fishing waters as part of the price of entry, and Heath agreed to it. The very considerable further powers that were handed over in Maastricht, Amsterdam and Lisbon were handed over without my consent. No major UK party offered to either to stop further intergration in their manifestos, or to offer referendums on the substantial handovers of sovereignty enshrined within those treaties, which were thus unconsensual. They are the reason why we are where we are today.

russel said:
When you voted for Brexit you were quite happy to accept the lies and the foreign meddling, now lies from politicians are unfortunately legal in a democratic vote but foreign interference most certainly isn’t. So stop calling the vote democratic, it wasn’t.
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This sort of manipulative yet vacuous comment is very tiring. When I voted for brexit I certainly did not accept 'foreign meddling', foreign meddling having been notably prevalent in the attempts to stop the UK from voting to leave the EU, and indeed to subsequently overturn the result. The lies that I didn't accept were the lies that took us into the EEC in the first place, and the lies that have been consistently told by both the EU and UK politicians to advance the project, without consent, ever since.

I don't know where in the recent narrative I've referred to the vote as democratic, but I will certainly do so if I wish to.
 
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