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Notably warm non-Mullard ECC82/12au7 valves?

With Mullard the etched type and date code is where to look. You have to learn to read them and be able to identify construction types. Some great info here. I don’t know their ECC82s well (I’ve way more experience of the ECC83 of which I have 15-20 or so of different vintages from 50s long-plates onwards). The Mullard ECC82s I tried in the PL were fairly late (early 70s I think, not even sure they were Blackburn factory) and were nothing special (rather warm and soggy, as they tended to be by that point).

thanks for the link. Yes, my first set of Mullards, I bought entirely blind were so soggy and muggy, I was thoroughly disappointed.

The ones I got from Watford seem to be the best I have tried, they are marked as CV4003, KQDD/K, 83/09
 
Those 80s Mullard CV4003 are very good, but I've always found they have a bigger sound than 60s Mullards, begging the question: are they just a bit louder, or is the sound slightly inflated? As ever, system dependent, but I eventually decided that in my Unico Pre/DM they sound a little too big - this is in a very powerful set of hybrids that already have a lot of gain.

I have a bucket full of Mullard ECC82s of all dates and recently started going through them to sort out the best ones. The trouble is, they all sound different. Some really very different. But it's incredibly different to say whether one sounds like it is because it was made in 1960 rather than 1967, or whether it's output is rather low due to age, or some other reason I can't fathom. I jsut gave up trying to find any rhyme or reason in it after a while. But it does make a mockery of all the generalisations people make. Yes, some Mullards can sound rosy and bloomy, but some can sound fantastically clear and revealing, whilst still retaining that warm touch. I still think that the best ones are the best ECC82s I've heard, but finding those really tip-top ones is a bit too much of a quest.
 
Those 80s Mullard CV4003 are very good, but I've always found they have a bigger sound than 60s Mullards, begging the question: are they just a bit louder, or is the sound slightly inflated? As ever, system dependent, but I eventually decided that in my Unico Pre/DM they sound a little too big - this is in a very powerful set of hybrids that already have a lot of gain.

I have a bucket full of Mullard ECC82s of all dates and recently started going through them to sort out the best ones. The trouble is, they all sound different. Some really very different. But it's incredibly different to say whether one sounds like it is because it was made in 1960 rather than 1967, or whether it's output is rather low due to age, or some other reason I can't fathom. I jsut gave up trying to find any rhyme or reason in it after a while. But it does make a mockery of all the generalisations people make. Yes, some Mullards can sound rosy and bloomy, but some can sound fantastically clear and revealing, whilst still retaining that warm touch. I still think that the best ones are the best ECC82s I've heard, but finding those really tip-top ones is a bit too much of a quest.

Ah they are 80's ones? interesting.

I have a pair of 1960's ,1960s gf2 b6c1 b8g2, Twin halo welded plates, which measured 9.0 / 9.0 and 10.0 / 9.5 (new = 10.5 ma) as well which I could compare them to in the driver slots.

The older ones had a softer more recessed laid back sound. Everything was calmer and more gentle. The Cryo 80's ones had the same 'signature' but a much bigger sound as you say, more precision but with the same midrange warmth. I dont know how much of this was due to the freezing. The old ones I could imagine being excellent in the right kit, and on their own if you didnt have the Cryo ones they would be pretty special in comparison to all the new tubes.

I can't remember much about the first Mullards I had other than the word that is etched in my mind 'gloopy'.

If you have any of the 80's ones let me know, as I would like to get some spares and will get them Cryo'd.

I always wonder about Langrex as a supplier, they seem to have an infinite supply of NOS valves. They seem to be running two companies on eBay at the moment and more and more Mullards keep getting listed.
 
Ah they are 80's ones? interesting.

I have a pair of 1960's ,1960s gf2 b6c1 b8g2,

So you've got a January 1966 and a Feb 1968. In my investigations, 1967 was a very good year for Mullard. I've speculated that this might be the positive effect of the 1966 world cup victory on the output of the Mullard factory. In fact I've wondered about writing a cultural history of Britain according to variation in Mullard ECC82s, but I'm just not sure I'd find a big enough audience.

I think the CV4003 are 80s but I'm not certain. I'm holding on to mine: I do have a pair of the Watford Cryos and will put them back in my preamp at some point in the near future to reassess.
 
So you've got a January 1966 and a Feb 1968. In my investigations, 1967 was a very good year for Mullard. I've speculated that this might be the positive effect of the 1966 world cup victory on the output of the Mullard factory. In fact I've wondered about writing a cultural history of Britain according to variation in Mullard ECC82s, but I'm just not sure I'd find a big enough audience.

I think the CV4003 are 80s but I'm not certain. I'm holding on to mine: I do have a pair of the Watford Cryos and will put them back in my preamp at some point in the near future to reassess.

I'll swap you for some Isopucks :D

I wonder if cars were made better in 66/67 also? Way before my time.
 
Thread-crapping on my wanted ad was overstepping forum etiquette, but bragging about your own thread-crap when I'm offering free advice - that's a window on to your psyche that you might want to draw some curtains over.

#issues

Chill Winston, emoji denotes a joke/banter on the interweb..
 
What power valves are you using in the PL? Any advice about the preamp valves needs to be in relation to those.

Generally though I'd recommend starting with modern Tung-sol EL34s and then working from there. You can get away with a modern and neutral sounding preamp valve, like Tungsol ECC82s. But if you're using KT120s you may want warmer preamp valves like Mullards.

I'm using Gold Lion KT88s, which are excellent.

I originally swapped the PL OEM EL34s for some Tung-Sol EL34s, simply because the amp was ex-dem and I didn't know how much time the PL valves had on them (plus the Tung-Sols were supposed to be a bit better). And very nice they were. Not a huge difference in character, but good.

Then after a tip on here (possibly even from you?) I went for the KT88's because they were supposedly a bit warmer and a tad more powerful. I was pleased with the change, and will stick with them in future. Great stuff.

But despite that extra warmth from the power valves, there's still a hissiness in the treble which I struggle to attribute to the speakers (Harbeth 30.1, so silk domed for a start). And the DAC I'm using is a NOS affair which is a bit rolled off at the top if anything. It's not too bad when using this DAC as a result, but I'd like to have more options - I've tried lots of supposedly-not-too-bright DACs but have had to revert to my backup each time. I've messed about with speaker placement and hanging thick towels as experimental room treatment, all to limited effect.

Which leaves me looking at the preamp valves.

Dave,

I've got a lot of 50s/ 60s USA ECC82s (Sylvanias, tungsols, RCAs, raytheons and some 5814s etc) you could try out if you like and buy them if they work and send back if not. Drop me a PM if you're interested. My experience in Primalunas is that the organ spec sylvanias and raytheons lean warmer so might be worth a try.

Thanks Bish. I think I may have had a couple from you in the past, in fact, though not the organ spec ones you mention. Depending on how things work out I'll drop you a pm if appropriate.
 
talking of valves, and venturing boldly into territory clearly off-piste, are you quite sure that valve tuning is the way you need to go to 'cure' a harsh top end? These are minute differences compared to swapping pre amp/phono stages/ having a crital look at your room speaker interaction/ casting a suspicious eye at your tweeters sound profile,/ checking your arm VTA/ etc etc etc.
 
talking of valves, and venturing boldly into territory clearly off-piste, are you quite sure that valve tuning is the way you need to go to 'cure' a harsh top end? These are minute differences compared to swapping pre amp/phono stages/ having a crital look at your room speaker interaction/ casting a suspicious eye at your tweeters sound profile,/ checking your arm VTA/ etc etc etc.

It's a Prima Luna valve issue. It's widely reported, it's the main criticism from owners, once the valves get changed, it generally goes. You'll be surprised how harsh those PL tubes are.
 
My Berning pre used 8 ecc82 so I tried and rolled virtually every make going.
Outright quality amperex 7316 (ultra rare) and seimens E82cc+ ecc82lp are faves, value for money and a sound that’s rich and smooth and impeccably balanced are RCA clear tops,or bugle boys, not too pricey either.
If interested I still have many pairs inc seimens long and short plate,amperex bugle boys, telefunken smooth plates, Mazda silver plates, Mullard 12au7, mullard 4003,
Rca black plates, a few others I forget. All done break in hours no more, Berning sold and valve amps gone so these redundant.
 
My Berning pre used 8 ecc82 so I tried and rolled virtually every make going.
Outright quality amperex 7316 (ultra rare) and seimens E82cc+ ecc82lp are faves, value for money and a sound that’s rich and smooth and impeccably balanced are RCA clear tops,or bugle boys, not too pricey either.
If interested I still have many pairs inc seimens long and short plate,amperex bugle boys, telefunken smooth plates, Mazda silver plates, Mullard 12au7, mullard 4003,
Rca black plates, a few others I forget. All done break in hours no more, Berning sold and valve amps gone so these redundant.

That does sound like quite a bit of experience!

If you want to drop me a pm with what you’ve got and what you’d want for them, please feel free.
 
American valves undervalued I feel. There’s usually a lot of brands to choose from and plenty available, meaning in most cases prices are very good value.
For me rca was best quality in most cases, GE very good value and almost cheap, certainly better than modern equivalents.
 
I’ve just been looking up values, so difficult to value valves, as variety, strange codes/no codes ( if telefunken can do daimonds why cant others) and fakes make comparisons problematic.
I’ll send you a msg with a few of better pairs and later put in ads section, then sort out the 30+ other asst signal valves, pain when print gone.
 
I am trying to think what defect could make a valve sound warm. This is most likely to be output impedance reacting with a transformer, but could be a low frequency thermal distortion or really excessive capacitance
 
Just listed best pairs, will sort other valves mainly singles when first batch sold. 2pairs sold in first of hour of listing. Batch of amperex/Hammond organ labelled type is only quad I have, is your amp self bias?
Best of luck in hunt.
 


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