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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer V

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Starmer comes over as my sociology lecturer, well meaning but dull.
People respond to passion, he has none, for all his faults the last passionate articulate and funny leader was kinnock. He unfortunately faced one of the most ruthless politicians in a century.
Blair was a autocrat but a winner and in politics winner takes all.
 
Telling people to shut up is rude.

It's also counterproductive - if someone said that to me I'd just stick them on ignore.
That doesn't stop them constantly posting in reply and making false claims though. It's probably also rude to make passive aggressive, gibing posts - designed to provoke responses - with no attempt to address the content of what is being replied to.
 
Chaps

Just a very rare political contribution from me.

If I was Labour I would seriously consider abandoning the annual party conference because year after year it is a public disaster that just makes them even more unelectable.

The Leader (admittedly non charismatic) is slagged off by his own party members who want him out. This encourages his supporters to defend him and then the Corbyn crowd wade in with all gun blazing and the electorate quite reasonably decides that this rabble who cannot even run their own party should never be trusted to run the country if this is how they squabble amongst themselves.

Boris will carry on regardless, he could even be videoed torturing kittens and still win the next election because every faction who is anti Tory are acting like drunken thugs with appalling language which is off putting to the silent majority who decide who wins the next election.

What is even worse is that the squabbling gets worse as time progresses and the sad sorry saga continues.

Tory supporters are now noticeably absent from this forum because there is no point in being here. The regular Tory bashers are doing a much better job of keeping Boris in power than any Tory such as me could ever dream of doing.

Over and out.

Mick
 
Chaps

Just a very rare political contribution from me.

If I was Labour I would seriously consider abandoning the annual party conference because year after year it is a public disaster that just makes them even more unelectable.

The Leader (admittedly non charismatic) is slagged off by his own party members who want him out. This encourages his supporters to defend him and then the Corbyn crowd wade in with all gun blazing and the electorate quite reasonably decides that this rabble who cannot even run their own party should never be trusted to run the country if this is how they squabble amongst themselves.

Boris will carry on regardless, he could even be videoed torturing kittens and still win the next election because every faction who is anti Tory are acting like drunken thugs with appalling language which is off putting to the silent majority who decide who wins the next election.

What is even worse is that the squabbling gets worse as time progresses and the sad sorry saga continues.

Tory supporters are now noticeably absent from this forum because there is no point in being here. The regular Tory bashers are doing a much better job of keeping Boris in power than any Tory such as me could ever dream of doing.

Over and out.

Mick

Stuff and nonsense.

86.7% of the UK population want to see Prime Minister Angela Rayner wage class war against rich Tory scum. In fact, they want to see it streamed live on YouTube. Daily.
 
Starmer comes over as my sociology lecturer, well meaning but dull.
People respond to passion, he has none, for all his faults the last passionate articulate and funny leader was kinnock. He unfortunately faced one of the most ruthless politicians in a century.
Blair was a autocrat but a winner and in politics winner takes all.
A few months ago someone in The Guardian wrote that Johnson was the hearty publican welcoming his customers, while Starmer stood outside the pub, thumping his drum for temperance.
 
A few months ago someone in The Guardian wrote that Johnson was the hearty publican welcoming his customers, while Starmer stood outside the pub, thumping his drum for temperance.
No, no, no, surely not. Starmer thumping a drum for anything? I mean, really?
 
What is even worse is that the squabbling gets worse as time progresses and the sad sorry saga continues.

Tory supporters are now noticeably absent from this forum because there is no point in being here. The regular Tory bashers are doing a much better job of keeping Boris in power than any Tory such as me could ever dream of doing.

Over and out.

Mick
No-one is going to get him out yet anyway for almost 3 years. This argument that the Labour party split is 'Tory enabling' misses the point entirely. Voting for Tony Blair was actually 'Tory enabling' because while folk were singing 'Things Can Only Get Better', they were actually destined to get worse, by him trying to out-Tory them and simply smoothing their way. Falling into line with this wing of the Labour Party will guarantee that the Tories regularly come back, if they ever leave at all. And yet even many enemies of the 'Labour-right' are also now subconsciously on-board with the economic TINA which helps the Tories win again and again. 'Tax the rich' and 'finding money for...'.

Something bigger will have to break before this is overthrown. This Labour Party split is not like the so-called left/right differences at the time of, say, Anthony Crosland; the Labour 'right' in the current party are monetarist monsters.
 
Chaps

Just a very rare political contribution from me.

If I was Labour I would seriously consider abandoning the annual party conference because year after year it is a public disaster that just makes them even more unelectable.

The Leader (admittedly non charismatic) is slagged off by his own party members who want him out. This encourages his supporters to defend him and then the Corbyn crowd wade in with all gun blazing and the electorate quite reasonably decides that this rabble who cannot even run their own party should never be trusted to run the country if this is how they squabble amongst themselves.

Boris will carry on regardless, he could even be videoed torturing kittens and still win the next election because every faction who is anti Tory are acting like drunken thugs with appalling language which is off putting to the silent majority who decide who wins the next election.

What is even worse is that the squabbling gets worse as time progresses and the sad sorry saga continues.

Tory supporters are now noticeably absent from this forum because there is no point in being here. The regular Tory bashers are doing a much better job of keeping Boris in power than any Tory such as me could ever dream of doing.

Over and out.

Mick
You mean because we don’t support the bent incompetent party you’ve been a part of? The chickens are coming home to roost.
 
No-one is going to get him out yet anyway for almost 3 years. This argument that the Labour party split is 'Tory enabling' misses the point entirely. Voting for Tony Blair was actually 'Tory enabling' because while folk were singing 'Things Can Only Get Better', they were actually destined to get worse, by him trying to out-Tory them and simply smoothing their way. Falling into line with this wing of the Labour Party will guarantee that the Tories regularly come back, if they ever leave at all. And yet even many enemies of the 'Labour-right' are also now subconsciously on-board with the economic TINA which helps the Tories win again and again. 'Tax the rich' and 'finding money for...'.

Something bigger will have to break before this is overthrown. This Labour Party split is not like the so-called left/right differences at the time of, say, Anthony Crosland; the Labour 'right' in the current party are monetarist monsters.
Yes. Thatcher said that her greatest achievement was Tony Blair and New Labour. Blair himself said of Thatcher, “I always thought my job was to build on some of the things she had done rather than reverse them…”

Blairism is not only the enabler of the Tory Party, but is part of the pressure pushing it further right.
 
Perhaps he’s entitled to his opinion as much as you are.
I notice that you’ve been on PFM for less than a month, have posted nearly 300 times, hardly any of which are hifi related. As my old pal Dec would usually ask, tell us about yourself, music likes and dislikes, and what system do you have?

I guess Le Baron's post was directed at me, and just reaffirms my view expressed in my last post to him on this thread. When posts get that base, the debate is lost.
 
Chaps


If I was Labour I would seriously consider abandoning the annual party conference
Don't you mean 'Conference'? ;) I think you're right though. It doesn't chime with the middle England voters who decide elections - far too self-referential.

I see James Gray MP tweeted that a fellow Tory MP might plant a bomb in Anneliese Dodd's office. Looks like that remark might have blown up in his face.
 
Yes. Thatcher said that her greatest achievement was Tony Blair and New Labour. Blair himself said of Thatcher, “I always thought my job was to build on some of the things she had done rather than reverse them…”

.
and he won three landslide victories.
 
Sorry, but I think that’s unfair. Yes, Kirk is entitled to an opinion as much as anyone, but he doesn’t express one. Any substance of Kirk’s posts have been addressed comprehensively but the subsequent responses have been personal and apparently designed to provoke anger more than address or engage with any point in good faith.

A for effort.
 
A decent start to the Labour Conference despite Angela gifting the Tories some free PR, and Piers upsetting his brother. Good to see the unions getting behind Starmer. Seems like there are some interesting policy initiatives as well. Rachel making some positive noises at the moment.
 
Don't you mean 'Conference'? ;) I think you're right though. It doesn't chime with the middle England voters who decide elections - far too self-referential.

Erm, the main point of a Conference is for those assembled to discuss and decide the issues raised. Discussing and decidibng things like party policy *is* "self referential" because it decides what you'll be doing - or should be - and why you think that's what to do... as a party.

The problems start when this is televised, etc, and:

A) Some people start grandstanding for the press. Who encourage this as it makes presenting easier for them without the need to explain policies or the reasons for them, etc.

B) The media then cherry pick and 'interpret' rather than get people to actually watch and think.

Thus your point goes back to the basic one we're all saddled with: The entire political process is corrupted and distorted by the media to give people the impression you outline to "Middle England" voters.

If the LP party had no conference then the press would lambast them for deciding 'in secret' and play up how sinister that is... Of course, the Tories decide from above as democaracy isn't their thing, so their 'Conference' can easily be devoted to a series of promos.

BTW I'm 'Middle Scotland". That has largely given up on the LP for other reasons.
 
Erm, the main point of a Conference is for those assembled to discuss and decide the issues raised. Discussing and decidibng things like party policy *is* "self referential" because it decides what you'll be doing - or should be - and why you think that's what to do... as a party.

The problems start when this is televised, etc, and:

A) Some people start grandstanding for the press. Who encourage this as it makes presenting easier for them without the need to explain policies or the reasons for them, etc.

B) The media then cherry pick and 'interpret' rather than get people to actually watch and think.

Thus your point goes back to the basic one we're all saddled with: The entire political process is corrupted and distorted by the media to give people the impression you outline to "Middle England" voters.

If the LP party had no conference then the press would lambast them for deciding 'in secret' and play up how sinister that is... Of course, the Tories decide from above as democaracy isn't their thing, so their 'Conference' can easily be devoted to a series of promos.

BTW I'm 'Middle Scotland". That has largely given up on the LP for other reasons.
Although given that the leader has just used the conference to force through a rule change that directly contradicts his own electoral pledges, and to announce a policy that directly contradicts the vote of conference delegates (on nationalisation), it's clear that here too everything is decided in secret by unelected officials and their sponsors, and that the democratic stuff is all just panto.

Panto democracy is the only kind that some are really comfortable with of course. And who's to say they're wrong: Labour are up in the latest polls. You have to wonder though if a politics that openly celebrates dishonesty and bullshit is really sustainable, long term.
 
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