Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIV

[notaclue]

The lorry drivers (who won't turn up in the first place) will be kicked out on Christmas Eve https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1441877863498719237

The culture war comes first. Getting goods on the shelves and petrol in the pumps comes a distant second.

By January, the British economy will be looking about as solid as one of the (very) many Spivs'R'Us gas and electricity companies.

We'll be looking for a World Bank bailout by next summer.

 

[Le Baron]

Interestingly I used to work for BCC (is this who you mean?), there was not a credible person there, their understanding of data collection and interpretation was non-existent. I was in fact one of only 3 qualified market researchers there and they never really got us.

Here is the opinion of someone that knows what he is talking about regarding the lorry driver shortage.
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/bLJDP

Taken from BBC Radio 4 Today this morning.

Not that I disagree with his general assessment, it makes a lot of sense, but the final bit about wage raises is a bit dicky. Every company on earth says 'margins are tight' leading to the conclusion that they make minimal profit usually, perhaps break even a lot and regularly lose money. This is not quite the case. Obviously many companies, especially ones with 'plant' costs, tangible stuff, struggle more than the companies running largely online, yet the logistics/haulage sector has grown massively. There is a lot of money being made in it and it ain't by the drivers. That guy said it himself.

The standard 'we have to raise prices if we raise wages - and then pass it on to the customer' (thus fuelling concerns of a wage-price spiral) is in most cases their choice not a law of nature. Maintenance of profit margins (especially if shareholders are involved) affects this decision. A company will always portray it as a 'tight margin' scenario or one where they are on the cusp of folding. The problem of getting credit lines is real, I wouldn't deny that, and also the generally tight budgeting methodologies of these governments cuts off flows of credit where it is needed everywhere in the economy. However many of these companies, and especially huge ones, are to be found voting for Tory parties as the 'business party', the 'tax cut party'. Therefore putting themselves and others into these situations in the first place.

I know people care less about boring root causes and are more agitated about the problem right now, but that's not really how it works. It's not the order of cause and effect.

 

[richardg]

Not that I disagree with his general assessment, it makes a lot of sense, but the final bit about wage raises is a bit dicky. Every company on earth says 'margins are tight' leading to the conclusion that they make minimal profit usually, perhaps break even a lot and regularly lose money. This is not quite the case. Obviously many companies, especially ones with 'plant' costs, tangible stuff, struggle more than the companies running largely online, yet the logistics/haulage sector has grown massively. There is a lot of money being made in it and it ain't by the drivers. That guy said it himself.

The standard 'we have to raise prices if we raise wages - and then pass it on to the customer' (thus fuelling concerns of a wage-price spiral) is in most cases their choice not a law of nature. Maintenance of profit margins (especially if shareholders are involved) affects this decision. A company will always portray it as a 'tight margin' scenario or one where they are on the cusp of folding. The problem of getting credit lines is real, I wouldn't deny that, and also the generally tight budgeting methodologies of these governments cuts off flows of credit where it is needed everywhere in the economy. However many of these companies, and especially huge ones, are to be found voting for Tory parties as the 'business party', the 'tax cut party'. Therefore putting themselves and others into these situations in the first place.

I know people care less about boring root causes and are more agitated about the problem right now, but that's not really how it works. It's not the order of cause and effect.

Yes, possibly. But I was already aware that haulage was a low margin sector vs others. Depends what car the speaker is driving, perhaps, and whether his kids are in private school etc. I know someone in Hull with a smallish haulage company called H&P Freightways and he's moaned a couple of times about how tight it is and how difficult it is to get properly ahead.

 

[Le Baron]

Yes, possibly. But I was already aware that haulage was a low margin sector vs others. Depends what car the speaker is driving, perhaps, and whether his kids are in private school etc. I know someone in Hull with a smallish haulage company called H&P Freightways and he's moaned a couple of times about how tight it is and how difficult it is to get properly ahead.

Of course I wouldn't want to tar every small company with the same brush. There are also decent people trying to do their best. It is more the system they're in. It's a cut-throat or sink sort of arena, which doesn't allow people to act in everyone's interests.

 

[ff1d1l]

Look how impartial, imbalanced and seemingly on a mission that is not really news Byline TV is. Taken from their facebook page:

We are people powered, and we will

Expose Brexit lies

Hold Boris Johnson to account

Root out corruption

Although, I'm up for all 3 of those, they are fairly strange and narrow and 6th formy objectives for a credible news channel.

Crap. This IS impartial.
All the news channels should have these as mission statements, instead of
Inspect johnson or indeed any tories prostate, licking as necessary, while worrying about defunding.
Don't mention brexit because it's going way beyond crap and all the remainers were right, but our proprietor likes it so STFU.
Don't mention corruption, indeed see if possible if we can get a slice.

 

[tonerei]

Mogg shows what Brexit is all about. Quick thinking, leading the world and if things get in the way here is a guy who knows how to get rid of obstacles. This is what the supporters of Brexit are all about. Magic solutions, no messing around, just ignore standards and carry on regardless.

 

[Le Baron]

For full impartiality though, all good purveyors of news would tell people that even though Brexit was a totally failed chess move by a bunch of novices; the EU really isn't a bunch of decent, serious people looking out for all its citizens' best welfare. Brexit being a cock-up has the FBPE crowd waving their EU flags imagining that one bunch of crackpot neo-liberals is somehow better than another. Marginally maybe, for some members.

 

[lagavullin10y]

You can’t have your turkey and eat it.

much better phrase than the cake variant which does remind me of the French Marie Antoinette.

 

[richardg]

Mogg shows what Brexit is all about. Quick thinking, leading the world and if things get in the way here is a guy who knows how to get rid of obstacles. This is what the supporters of Brexit are all about. Magic solutions, no messing around, just ignore standards and carry on regardless.

In the first video he acknowledged he knows nothing about heavy goods vehicles and then goes onto blame Brexit and nothing else for the shortage of drivers. Upthread I have posted an audio link from Radio 4 where someone who knows a lot about the hgv sector says very clearly the shortage is not because of Brexit.
.

 

[richardg]

Crap. This IS impartial.
All the news channels should have these as mission statements, instead of
Inspect johnson or indeed any tories prostate, licking as necessary, while worrying about defunding.
Don't mention brexit because it's going way beyond crap and all the remainers were right, but our proprietor likes it so STFU.
Don't mention corruption, indeed see if possible if we can get a slice.

Ok well it's not the news channel for me. Just bashing certain types and topics is way too narrow-minded in my opinion.

 

[richardg]

For full impartiality though, all good purveyors of news would tell people that even though Brexit was a totally failed chess move by a bunch of novices; the EU really isn't a bunch of decent, serious people looking out for all its citizens' best welfare. Brexit being a cock-up has the FBPE crowd waving their EU flags imagining that one bunch of crackpot neo-liberals is somehow better than another. Marginally maybe, for some members.

Right, a degree of balance is required. Like this one on the French UK relations eg:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/25/...uld-have-consequences-intl-gbr-cmd/index.html

 

[Space is the Place]

The Tories instigated Brexit to pacify it's own party, all of them rich enough not to be bothered by what would happen in the future, or having no real grasp of/or care of what they were doing (..." Dover's an important port you say?").

52% of *people voted for leaving the EU, for whatever reason they had at the time.

I wouldn't normally use the Daily Mail for anything, even if i'd run out of toilet paper, but i thought this sums up the last 5 years rather nicely...

2018...

3 years later...
Cut out and keep poster for the champions of Brexit, well done everyone!

 

[ff1d1l]

The Tories instigated Brexit to pacify it's own party, all of them rich enough not to be bothered by what would happen in the future, or having no real grasp of/or care of what they were doing (..." Dover's an important port you say?").

52% of *people voted for leaving the EU, for whatever reason they had at the time.

I wouldn't normally use the Daily Mail for anything, even if i'd run out of toilet paper, but i thought this sums up the last 5 years rather nicely...

2018...

3 years later...
Cut out and keep poster for the champions of Brexit, well done everyone!

Needs a square saying we are now insignificant on the world stage so stuff like this will increasingly happen...the British have a word for it.

 

[Richard Lines]

Good Morning All,

Having read the various contributions/ links above I am reminded about what happened with various sections of the British Merchant Navy starting back in the 90's when there was a move over the East European officers which held the wages down in that sector for 20yrs........... it never recovered.

Didn't bp used to employ it's own fleet of tankers and drivers?

My ex MiL, who moved from India in about 1963, always used to comment about how little UK businesses seemed to invest in looking ahead (she was PA to one of the higher-ups in the Sheffield steel industry [or at least what was left of it]at the time).

Regards

Richard

 

[droodzilla]

Ok well it's not the news channel for me. Just bashing certain types and topics is way too narrow-minded in my opinion.

Turkeys are not Lorries.

 

[stevec67]

Yes, possibly. But I was already aware that haulage was a low margin sector vs others. Depends what car the speaker is driving, perhaps, and whether his kids are in private school etc. I know someone in Hull with a smallish haulage company called H&P Freightways and he's moaned a couple of times about how tight it is and how difficult it is to get properly ahead.

Indeed. In fact this very week a bit haulage company has gone into administration. Name escapes me for now.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Shit-for-brains is apparently regretting it now
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/boris-johnson-deeply-regrets-going-down-brexit-route-close-sources-reveal-101062/."

But if you read the piece, the regret is all about how it has backfired for him personally, not about the harm it has unleashed. Key quote here:

The source said: “He knows he’s ****ed up massively. Now he’s working out how to get himself out of the mess.”

(my emphasis)

This is absolutely typical and no more than I’d expect from one who thinks the only thing that matters is his own self interest.

 

[ff1d1l]

But if you read the piece, the regret is all about how it has backfired for him personally, not about the harm it has unleashed. Key quote here:

(my emphasis)

This is absolutely typical and no more than I’d expect from one who thinks the only thing that matters is his own self interest.

Thought that was a given!

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Has anyone actually seen an apology from someone who voted for this utter shitshow?

Surely that’s the least that they can start with?

 

[tonerei]

In the first video he acknowledged he knows nothing about heavy goods vehicles and then goes onto blame Brexit and nothing else for the shortage of drivers. Upthread I have posted an audio link from Radio 4 where someone who knows a lot about the hgv sector says very clearly the shortage is not because of Brexit.
.

Surely you get the simple point. If I understand it correctly Mogg is removing the need for a HGV driver to be tested on reversing an artic. His solution which he thinks is a stroke of genius sounds crazy. Do you not agree? That is the point I was making.

Obviously covid, issues with supply chain, working conditions are causing problems for a lot of countries. It would appear that the UK is suffering substantially more than other countries. Brexit is most definitely a contributor and not one that is easy to fix. To be in denial about this and focus on remainers talking about Brexit is just plain silly.