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Calling all psychologists: the "my gear is me" syndrome...

norliss

norliss

pfm Member
I thought it might me an idea to start a conversation on a topic that has long-since baffled me. Many years ago, I remember having 'debates' (arguments) about which was better: the Commodore 64 or the Sinclair Spectrum. They were utterly pointless and childish but then I was and we were, children. 10/11 year old, children, to give a figure. Move forward only a few years when things had moved onto the Commodore Amiga and the Atari ST and, despite only being a few years older, such arguments ceased to exist.

Similar arguments have existed and continue to do so to this day: Nintendo vs Sega, Playstation vs Xbox, Apple vs Microsoft and, in reading some of the ways in which proponents address each other with such mature and considered gems as:

"Typical brainwashed Mac zealot..."

"Idiotic Win-droid"

"You're just a Sony fanboy!"

etc

...you'd be forgiven for thinking it's still the same sub-12 year old age group that participate in this kind of discourse. Except that it's not. And more surprising, given that HiFi is in the main, something of interest to a somewhat older group of people, is that a similar kind of mindset exists within its circles.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen threads descend into embarrassing spectacles between people that argue for no other reason than that someone dislikes or prefers a piece of gear other than the one they own. A classic scenario being:

OP says "Hey, I'd like to buy a <insert component type> and have a budget of X". To which someone replies advocating that said person buys make/model X (usually because they have one) followed by someone else advocating something else, in small part because they've tried/owned make/model X and didn't like it and/ or preferred make/ model Y. Net result = a back and forth between 2 (most likely) 50-80year old males where they basically trade insults seemingly for no other reason than that they have opted for different gear. It's almost as if by saying:

"I heard the same amplifier you have and didn't like it"

is akin to saying

"I've seen your wife and she's as rough as a bear's posterior. Her cooking's terrible and she's the most boring woman I've ever met and I'd rather hook up with the ropey girl that hangs around the pub down the road!"

So tell me, why does this happen? Why do people care? What difference does it make to them if someone else buys/ likes the same gear as them? Is it because the gear is an extension of themselves and they find that if someone doesn't like their gear it's akin to them saying "I don't like you"? Perhaps it's a tribal thing? People feel like they belong to tribe X, tribe Y or tribe Z?

Personally, I couldn't give two f..... er.... figs if you like or dislike what I own. If you want to tell me that you think any/ all of what I own is crap, then that's fine. It makes no difference to me whatsoever! In fact, I almost take the opposite view: if anyone asks me to suggest what gear they should buy, I would be more inclined to suggest makes/models other than what I have because I like the idea of people having different gear. How boring would it be if you and your pals all had the same gear?

If I come around your house to listen to music, I want to hear a different turntable/cart, amplification, speakers etc to what I have as that's interesting to me. If you had the same gear as me I'd be less inclined to come around because it would be just like me listening to my own system (albeit the room would be different, of course). For me, variety is the spice of life but perhaps others just want to be like the Borg/Daleks and assimilate and conform?
 
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Just filter the information in forums, run your own test and draw your own conclusions.
Someone that paid £20 000.00 for his amplifier system will be in favor of his brand but that doesn’t mean something 1/4 of this price won’t work for you..........and maybe even sound better !
 
Sorry Norliss. I don't support your argument at all.
I think there is a huge amount of diversity on PFM nowadays. There is also a great deal of good will expressed in threads, where opinion differs. No one has ever expressed a negative view about my system.... But I can access a great deal of experience when I want to improve it.
Occasionally a bit of grumpy breaks out..... But I'd rather people were passionate about the hobby than not.
I'm a little sad that cable and 'tweak' threads have largely been silenced by a small but vociferous group who like to be rude and dismissive. But overall I think Tony enjoys diversity and seeks to encourage it.
 
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Darren said:
Sorry Norliss. I don't support your argument at all.
I think there is a huge amount of diversity on PFM nowadays. There is also agreat deal of good will expressed in threads, where opinion differs. No none has ever expressed a negative view about my system.... But I can access a great deal of experience when I need to improve it.
Occasionally a bit of grumpy breaks out..... But I'd rather people were passionate about the hobby than not.
I'm a little sad that cable and 'tweak' threads have largely been silenced by a small but vociferous group who like to be rude and dismissive. But overall I think Tony enjoys diversity and seeks to encourage it.
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Yeah, to be honest I should have prefaced that post by saying that I wasn't talking with specific reference to PFM since if anything this is a far better place than most. Truth be told I was probably thinking about in general and one or two other places...
 
“I heard the amplifier you have and didn’t like it” is a looong way from calling someone’s wife “rough”.
To avoid confrontation you would be better off saying something like “I heard the amplifier you have and whilst it’s great it could be improved by….”)
 
Darren said:
But overall I think Tony enjoys diversity and seeks to encourage it.
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I consider absolute positions in audio far beyond ridiculous. Almost always a sign the poster has limited experience IME. Stereo hit the market in 1958 and there have been countless perfectly valid and lasting approaches in two channel audio since then. My only personal soap-box is green/Right To Repair, beyond that I like and respect huge amounts of audio of all eras.

Darren said:
I'm a little sad that cable and 'tweak' threads have largely been silenced by a small but vociferous group who like to be rude and dismissive.
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That annoys me too, just ego warrior/crusader trolls in most cases. I fall somewhere in the middle, I’d never use crap, never spend an absolute fortune. I do find some of the advertising claims absurd on occasion, but I’ll always pay for good quality materials and engineering, and I’m certainly not here to preach to anyone, nor do I have any ego in this regard. There is no prize for “winning” a cable discussion. It’s all daft anyway as it is just part of a larger electronic circuit, so what sounds great in one context may not in another for easily explained electrical reasons (capacitance, inductance, screening etc).
 
norliss said:
I thought it might me an idea to start a conversation on a topic that has long-since baffled me. Many years ago, I remember having 'debates' (arguments) about which was better: the Commodore 64 or the Sinclair Spectrum. They were utterly pointless and childish but then I was and we were, children. 10/11 year old, children, to give a figure. Move forward only a few years when things had moved onto the Commodore Amiga and the Atari ST and, despite only being a few years older, such arguments ceased to exist.
....
So tell me, why does this happen? Why do people care? What difference does it make to them if someone else buys/ likes the same gear as them? Is it because the gear is an extension of themselves and they find that if someone doesn't like their gear it's akin to them saying "I don't like you"? Perhaps it's a tribal thing? People feel like they belong to tribe X, tribe Y or tribe Z?
Click to expand...
Well
1) self-definition by consumption is something of a feature of our society
2) people who spend a lot of time on internet forums do tend to take the subject of the forum a bit (too) seriously
3) never mind, because everyone is agreed that you are definitely talking about "the other guy".
 
Tony L said:
I consider absolute positions in audio far beyond ridiculous. Almost always a sign the poster has limited experience IME. Stereo hit the market in 1958 and there have been countless perfectly valid and lasting approaches in two channel audio since then. My only personal soap-box is green/Right To Repair, beyond that I like and respect huge amounts of audio of all eras.



That annoys me too, just ego warrior/crusader trolls in most cases. I fall somewhere in the middle, I’d never use crap, never spend an absolute fortune. I do find some of the advertising claims absurd on occasion, but I’ll always pay for good quality materials and engineering, and I’m certainly not here to preach to anyone, nor do I have any ego in this regard. There is no prize for “winning” a cable discussion. It’s all daft anyway as it is just part of a larger electronic circuit, so what sounds great in one context may not in another for easily explained electrical reasons (capacitance, inductance, screening etc).
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Thank you for making that point about cables. In a sense they can be viewed as an external element of a speaker’s crossover, so it’s no surprise that a cable’s specific RCL values will have different effects on different speakers.
 
adamdea said:
Well
1) self-definition by consumption is something of a feature of our society
2) people who spend a lot of time on internet forums do tend to take the subject of the forum a bit (too) seriously
3) never mind, because everyone is agreed that you are definitely talking about "the other guy".
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Agreed on 1 & 2. Was point 3 aimed at me by any chance?
 
Tony L said:
That annoys me too, just ego warrior/crusader trolls in most cases. I fall somewhere in the middle, I’d never use crap, never spend an absolute fortune. I do find some of the advertising claims absurd on occasion, but I’ll always pay for good quality materials and engineering, and I’m certainly not here to preach to anyone, nor do I have any ego in this regard. There is no prize for “winning” a cable discussion. It’s all daft anyway as it is just part of a larger electronic circuit, so what sounds great in one context may not in another for easily explained electrical reasons (capacitance, inductance, screening etc).
Click to expand...

I'm largely in agreement except when it comes to £1000 ethernet cables.

I leave those threads alone now simply because you inevitably end up pissing on someone's chips and it's not nice.

As you say, there's no 'winning'. If it makes someone happy more power to them ...even if I do think it's all nonsense!
 
Marchbanks said:
Most of my gear is definitely me. Knocking on a bit, a little worn round the edges and needs to be treated with care, but underneath it all still pretty decent if you can ignore the occasional off-putting noise or smell.
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Just as long as you don’t have a bang in front of them.
 
May be it is a combination of where people lie on so called big 5 personality dimensions, epecially numbers 2, 4 and 5?

Huge amount of evidence for them, across many cultures.

The%2BBig%2BFive%2BPersonality%2BTest.jpg
 
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