A thread to catalogue the eloquence, dignity, diplomacy and wisdom of Boris Johnson

[MUTTY1]

Why are we trying to alienate France? Recently we had the nonsensical Patel training people to push boats back into french waters with jet ski’s and threatening a wealthy nation with withdrawing £58 million if they don’t do our bidding. Now we have cut them so much out of the Asia loop they learned about a massive( symbolic) change in foreign policy from watching the news like every Tom/Dick/Harry!
France is very important to us no matter what you think of centuries of ‘friendly’ rivalry. That recent fire that cut out their support of our energy consumption is just a small example to illustrate we shouldn’t treat them as casually as we do for political point scoring.

 

[TheDecameron]

They can receive a turnip and consider themselves (very) lucky.

Remember! Ask your parents to conserve gas.

 

[SteveS1]

Why are we trying to alienate France? Recently we had the nonsensical Patel training people to push boats back into french waters with jet ski’s and threatening a wealthy nation with withdrawing £58 million if they don’t do our bidding. Now we have cut them so much out of the Asia loop they learned about a massive( symbolic) change in foreign policy from watching the news like every Tom/Dick/Harry!
France is very important to us no matter what you think of centuries of ‘friendly’ rivalry. That recent fire that cut out their support of our energy consumption is just a small example to illustrate we shouldn’t treat them as casually as we do for political point scoring.

Their anger is more with Australia and the US hence the ambassador recalls there, the UK are bit players in this, not drivers. But your point is well made. Out of the three, we stand to lose more from stupidity toward near neighbours and that isn't something that will bother the US or Australia.

 

[MUTTY1]

Sadly both Johnson and Macron are chronic egoists and are unlikely to back down. By all that is sane Pritti Patal should have been dumped in the reshuffle. But she remains in the cabinet for the same reason that Boris became leader of the party.

 

[eisenach]

Le Drian (French foreign minister) was scathing about the UK on France 2 tonight. He described us as the fifth wheel on the chariot, and said that Britain was doing what Britain always does: screwing others over in its self interest. (He was ruder than that ! Made me laugh !)

On another tack, I'm a bit slow on the uptake. The German local paper the Westfalen-Blatt has an article about Brexit and Johnson, listing the many different ways in which leaving the EU hadn't been thought through. To my mind, the most pertinent is the channel migrants. When we were in, the Dublin agreement applied and it was possible to send them back to the "first country". Now we aren't in, we can't, and predictably France is saying behind a h
and over the mouth "à qui la faute" ?

 

[Le Baron]

He's absolutely right, and yet France also screws people over in its self interest - most commonly far away in Africa/Middle-East were Europe doesn't look too hard...il ne faut pas se voiler la face.

 

[tonerei]

He's absolutely right, and yet France also screws people over in its self interest - most commonly far away in Africa/Middle-East were Europe doesn't look too hard...il ne faut pas se voiler la face.

All western nations act like this but I think if you get the calculator out the two U's (UK & US) are the all time champions in regard to this behaviour. Nobody has caused more carnage over the centuries as the anglo saxons.

 

[Spraggons Den]

Yeah but in return we gave the world Elvis, Beatles, Tamla Mowtown, Rolling Stones, Northern Soul, Dylan, Trex, Pink Floyd, punk, post punk Joy Division, stone Roses, Cat Power, Belle and Sebastian etc

I quite like Edith Piaff but that’s about it for contemporary French music.

 

[CTank]

Air?

 

[suzywong]

After reading the above, I was trying to think of contemporary/well known French musicians. I could only come up with Jean-Michel Jarre, Jean-Luc Ponty, Daft Punk, Air and Andre Previn. And from previous decades, Edith Piaf, Charles Azenour and Johnny Hallyday.

It’s a very short list, surely there must be more?

 

[Dave H.]

Le Drian (French foreign minister) was scathing about the UK on France 2 tonight. He described us as the fifth wheel on the chariot, and said that Britain was doing what Britain always does: screwing others over in its self interest. (He was ruder than that ! Made me laugh !)

On another tack, I'm a bit slow on the uptake. The German local paper the Westfalen-Blatt has an article about Brexit and Johnson, listing the many different ways in which leaving the EU hadn't been thought through. To my mind, the most pertinent is the channel migrants. When we were in, the Dublin agreement applied and it was possible to send them back to the "first country". Now we aren't in, we can't, and predictably France is saying behind a h
and over the mouth "à qui la faute" ?

Is there any chance you post some of the Westfalen-Blatt points, or link to the article?

I’m curious about their perspective, as it seems we only ever hear domestic opinions here.

 

[Colin L]

After reading the above, I was trying to think of contemporary/well known French musicians. I could only come up with Jean-Michel Jarre, Jean-Luc Ponty, Daft Punk, Air and Andre Previn. And from previous decades, Edith Piaf, Charles Azenour and Johnny Hallyday.

It’s a very short list, surely there must be more?

Didier Malherbe and Loy Ehrlich (Hadouk).

 

[Spraggons Den]

Christine and the Queens

 

[The Far North]

Simon Tisdall worth a read in the Observer. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-how-boris-johnsons-global-britain-went-rogue

Myopic politicians, soldiers and diplomats say new nuclear weapons, missiles, ships, submarines and alliances are necessary to deter unnamed enemies. They are needed to bolster “international security”.

So why is it that, each day, the world feels a little less secure? This paradox is lost on two such political pygmies, Britain’s Boris Johnson and Australia’s Scott Morrison. These two could be twins. Both suffer illusions about their own importance. They think they are global players. In truth, they’re global goofs.

In America’s losing battle to prevent China’s rise to world No 1, they dance to Joe Biden’s menacing tune. They’re like a pair of flabby chorus singers supporting the main turn. On this, both agree: if there’s going to be another war, they want in.

 

[TheDecameron]

Simon Tisdall worth a read in the Observer. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-how-boris-johnsons-global-britain-went-rogue

The Anglosphere cousins- about to get a bloody nose in the South China Sea. Boris and his pale stale male equivalent in Australia obviously haven’t grasped the limitations of their relevance on the world stage. It’s 2021, not 1921. Johnson can’t even keep food on the supermarket shelves at home and he’s sending an aircraft carrier to annoy China!

 

[eisenach]

Is there any chance you post some of the Westfalen-Blatt points, or link to the article?

I’m curious about their perspective, as it seems we only ever hear domestic opinions here.

 

[Le Baron]

All western nations act like this but I think if you get the calculator out the two U's (UK & US) are the all time champions in regard to this behaviour. Nobody has caused more carnage over the centuries as the anglo saxons.

Over the historical timescale indeed. I'm critical of the anglo saxon past, yet what is left of the British Empire (largely token now with Britain as merely a member of the empire it once dominated) is not even close to matching how France currently maintains an actual sophisticated neo-colonial empire in Africa.

US foreign policy is not automatically identical to UK foreign policy as a bloc called 'anglo saxon'; and French foreign policy doesn't stand in automatic contradiction to US policy. Peruse the UN objections and vetoes where US and France have voted and worked together to maintain a situation of economic dependency with regard to underdeveloped nations. Another major economic neo-colonialist is the Netherlands (where I am), which masks this as 'free trade' and uses EU power to subjugate domestic markets in developing countries - mostly agriculture - in order to secure markets for NL's huge agriculture output.

 

[eisenach]

I can't find the article online, despite my best efforts, though Westfalen-Blatt has plenty of other Brexit articles.
Here, she's talking about empty supermarket shelves, shortages of medical supplies, difficult trading conditions, etc, usw., instead of the sunlit uplands and the glory of taking back control that had been promised. A lack of thinking things through.
And in an echo of what's been said upthread regarding the food industry, the shortage of workers, now that so many EU citizens have gone back, was supposed to be filled by UK workers. But it's not the nationality of the worker that matters, rather their competence.

 

[Le Baron]

But it's not the nationality of the worker that matters, rather their competence.

Or rather 'willingness' to work for generally lower wages/conditions? The difference (which also exists in other EU countries, see Italy's leather goods industry) is that a e.g. eastern Europeans from the more recently elevated member states have been exploited to fill picking/packing jobs.

With only great reluctance and desperation does a firm then grudgingly offer something a domestic worker will consider economically viable for themselves. The darker side of 'free movement' is that it vastly expands the hiring choices of firms seeking those willing (as in unable to bargain all that much) to take the lowest remuneration. 'Labour shortage' is thus a misleading idea.

 

[SteveS1]

Or rather 'willingness' to work for generally lower wages/conditions? The difference (which also exists in other EU countries, see Italy's leather goods industry) is that a e.g. eastern Europeans from the more recently elevated member states have been exploited to fill picking/packing jobs.

With only great reluctance and desperation does a firm then grudgingly offer something a domestic worker will consider economically viable for themselves. The darker side of 'free movement' is that it vastly expands the hiring choices of firms seeking those willing (as in unable to bargain all that much) to take the lowest remuneration. 'Labour shortage' is thus a misleading idea.

Keep repeating that doesn't make it true. There is a serious labour shortage in the UK and in the care and health sectors this was the case even prior to the pandemic. There is an ageing population and a real shortage of younger people willing to do these jobs and you are deluding yourself if you think that more pay is the panacea for this.

Some movement in that will help, but only to the point that it doesn't prevent those jobs even appearing or make the cost of living deteriorate beyond the scope of the pay increases. The poorest paid are the first to feel inflation and the least able to sustain it. Giving additional pay that is immediately usurped by cost of living increases is still a net loss and a worsening of the their situation. This against a backdrop of government policy to raise NI and cut UC.

You have an over-simplified view of this, it's always a balance between the availability, suitability and cost of labour if you want sustainable growth of an economy which will then fund adequate public services.