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Audio Note Cobra

I've been putting a TDA1543-based Starting Point Systems DAC 3 up against an array of much more expensive DACs (i.e. costing thousands) over the past few months.

Thus far, nothing has slapped me round the face as night and day better, at least nothing that didn't also bring in its own set of compromises/matters of taste. It's been eye-opening, in fact to the point of being frustrating, as I'd got myself all ready for a nice new toy. If I do go for one of the posher models, I think it'll be preference rather than anything having embarrassed the plucky little bugger.

YYMV, of course, but my point is that there's no reason at all not to give the Cobra a really good chance to account for itself if you're that way inclined.

That SPS DAC 3 is a great sounding DAC - to make it far better than it sounds already add a good linear PSU (despite the fact this thing runs on batteries) - improvements are very obvious when you do this.
 
Thanks for notifying us about the Cobra - I wonder if this would sound better than my Audio Note 0.1x coupled to my Croft pre 25 / power 7 ?

Or at least equal to with the added bonus of consolidating three boxes down to just the one? And half-width too !

Tempting to audition.
 
That SPS DAC 3 is a great sounding DAC - to make it far better than it sounds already add a good linear PSU (despite the fact this thing runs on batteries) - improvements are very obvious when you do this.

Thanks for the confirmation re LPS - if I don’t find something fancier that persuades me to part with the SPS, my consolation plan was to get something like an Sbooster BOTW and feed the SPS some posh electric.

I wasn’t sure if it’d do much, given the batteries, so it’s nice to hear that it should do even with them being in the circuit.
 
G T Audio, i have gone from 3 box's spectral pre -and 2mono's, to a one box AudioNet Humboldt, was this a bad move, ?? as it sounds better, and cost's a lot cheaper to run, cables interconnects, and space,
are you just flogging us box's, cuz more is more,
i used to like you're input , now I'm sceptical,
 
G T Audio, i have gone from 3 box's spectral pre -and 2mono's, to a one box AudioNet Humboldt, was this a bad move, ?? as it sounds better, and cost's a lot cheaper to run, cables interconnects, and space,

Difficult to say without hearing the comparison directly in your system. Separate units have their own circuits and associated power supplies, and their active stages will be optimised for best results within their enclosure. With a single box solution, power supplies are often shared and are rarely optimised for each active stage in the chain. Space is important for a single box design so discreet circuitry is often given up in place of surface mount technology. The use of op-amps is often chosen over good use of discrete transistor circuits. The latter, assuming a good design is generally accepted as better than the former in terms of the best audio fidelity. When amplifying small signals in a one box solution, it is likely that these may be influenced by large fields generated by the bigger power supply needed to power a one box solution. Compromises have to be made in a one box solution unless the case is made large enough to reduce the influence of internal noise, often to the point where the one box design is bigger than a two or three box solution. There are other reasons like heat dissipation to be considered, but I will keep it to this for the time being, but you should get the gist.

are you just flogging us box's, cuz more is more, i used to like you're input, now I'm sceptical,

I don't flog anything to any one. I don't advertise in the press. I build everything to order and my business comes from recommendation, or by word of mouth, or from clients who heard my demonstrations at Hi-Fi Shows over the years. My clients or customers want the best possible performance for their money and that is what I give them...
 
I've heard one of these, and although it didnt come close to my Prima Luna EVO, its really nice. The included DAC is 'ok' but it's nothing special, however as a semi one box solution, its definitely worth a consideration.

It's a little 'monotone' , very midrange orientated, and very pleasant to listen to. It's not going to blow your socks off, but if you want a nice detailed relaxing sound without any surprises then its a good call. Little pricey if I being honest.

What model EVO was it and what were the speakers on the end of The Cobra- just curious.:)
 
Thanks for the confirmation re LPS - if I don’t find something fancier that persuades me to part with the SPS, my consolation plan was to get something like an Sbooster BOTW and feed the SPS some posh electric.

I wasn’t sure if it’d do much, given the batteries, so it’s nice to hear that it should do even with them being in the circuit.

In my case the ‘posh electric’ as you call it made a significant improvement to the SPS
 
I wrote the review on the Wam and I have to admit I liked the Cobra. It is an ideal solution for anyone wanting to use valves in a one-box package. Just add speakers and a digital front end (CD/streamer) and off you go. All these parts work together as you might expect. It is an Audionote product in all senses, and when they found they could not buy a good transformer at the right price they made one, just for the Cobra. Yes there are better sounding products, but all in one box and at this price ? It also signifies a new direction for some audio companies as customers become less interested in the super-mega expensive ranges and just want something that works and is not too expensive. Remote control as well.
 
Thanks for notifying us about the Cobra - I wonder if this would sound better than my Audio Note 0.1x coupled to my Croft pre 25 / power 7 ?

Or at least equal to with the added bonus of consolidating three boxes down to just the one? And half-width too !

Tempting to audition.

I agree with @G T Audio that in general separates are superior to integrated units for the reasons he mentions, power supplies, shielding, etc.

And this is true for Audio Note. Audio Note integrated amplifiers are usually two separates in on box sharing one power supply. Take the Meishu Phono 300B integrated amplifier. You can buy this integrated amp as separates - an M2 Phono (or M2 Line and separate M2 Phono RIAA) and P3 300B stereo Power amp. If you separate all this out it sounds better than the Meishu Phono integrated. One thing great about Audio Note is that if you ever want to compare integrated to separates you can actually audition the EXACT same design and parts etc and compare them back and forth. The P3 is the identical power amp section that is in the Meishu - same parts etc. But of course, going separates is a lot more money.

Note: There can be an advantage to integrated products too: Short signal paths require less wiring and the best wiring is no wiring - so short wiring is better than long wiring. And a good designer making a good integrated will sound better than a so-so designer making separates. Having come back from listening to the one box Audio Note Meishu Phono Tonmesiter (basic entry level version) it was astonishing. If I were not a reviewer - this would be my amp. It's the best 300B I have ever heard. Big, heavy box - not exactly pretty but I understand why it's Audio Note's best selling amplifier. The Tonemiester is a lot better than the first version which wasn't my cup of tea.

I have owned the OTO Phono SE for the last 18 years but taking the M1 phono (which is the preamp in the OTO) allows for more amplifier choices and running that preamp with my Empress Silver monoblocks is vastly superior to the OTO.

You, like me, own the DAC0.1x and it's better than the DAC that is in the Cobra - my understanding is that the Cobra version is not a tube dac - it uses the chip but it's not the same thing. I did like the DAC chip more than a $2000ish CD player from Roksan that was connected to it.

But again when we talk separates - the Cobra is somewhat acting like a separate DAC for the Roksan one box player. What I would want to do is connect the 0.1x DAC to the Cobra then we can compare apples to apples.

I quite enjoyed the Cobra and IMO it's far better than what I have heard from Prima Luna or my prior Line Magnetic or what I have heard from Cayin (Cayin makes the transformers for both Line Magnetic and Prima Luna and Triode Labs (Line Magnetic makes the rest of the amp for Triode Labs). Interestingly Triode Labs makes the more affordable and best-looking amps of the lot so they are worth looking into as a cost-saving proposition. Cayin makes some great-looking amps too but the best ones only seem to be affordable here in Hong Kong and in China. The profit margin goes up too high IMO when they get to the west. I think the Cobra is the ugliest of the bunch because of the big Cobra put on the top of it and only available in black.

Still, it sounds better than pretty much any EL34 I have tried over the years precisely because it doesn't make me think Push-Pull sound. In fact, it was with the Rogers LS-3/5a (new version) where it interested me because it was the first time I actually liked the sound of those speakers. I am not surprised that Rogers has released their new tube amps and those are made by Audio Note.

You may also want to look at the Rogers e20 and possibly the A40 (they made a limited collector's edition run so they may be sold out by now) but these are both Audio Note amps under the Rogers label. Andy Whittle is the LS-3/5a guru and works for Audio Note 1 day and heads Rogers the other 4. My point is that the Rogers amps cost less than the Cobra and might be worth a look.

Ultimately, I would keep what you have. The Cobra is a really nice amp but like my OTO or the iZero or the SORO, they are inflexible. You can't upgrade them. They are great beginner amps because like all Audio Note gear they are auto-bias so if you are just starting out with tubes they sound great, the tubes last a long long time and are cheap to buy when they do need to be replaced. But none of them have preouts or prein.

And when making an upgrade I usually tell people to make sure to get a big upgrade. I don't think the Cobra would be an upgrade to what you have. I suppose you never know until you try. I would audition that Meishu Tonmesiter that could replace the Croft separates and keep your DAC. If your speakers are okay with 8 watts per channel - man it's a superb amplifier. I am considering the P3 Tonmeister - the power amp version of it. Interestingly the P3 has volume control for one source (I assume a passive attenuator) so in theory, if you only need one source you could get this instead of the integrated to save money. A second-hand one (rare) comes up it might be around the same money as a new Cobra.
 
I agree with @G T Audio that in general separates are superior to integrated units for the reasons he mentions, power supplies, shielding, etc.

And this is true for Audio Note. Audio Note integrated amplifiers are usually two separates in on box sharing one power supply. Take the Meishu Phono 300B integrated amplifier. You can buy this integrated amp as separates - an M2 Phono (or M2 Line and separate M2 Phono RIAA) and P3 300B stereo Power amp. If you separate all this out it sounds better than the Meishu Phono integrated. One thing great about Audio Note is that if you ever want to compare integrated to separates you can actually audition the EXACT same design and parts etc and compare them back and forth. The P3 is the identical power amp section that is in the Meishu - same parts etc. But of course, going separates is a lot more money.

Note: There can be an advantage to integrated products too: Short signal paths require less wiring and the best wiring is no wiring - so short wiring is better than long wiring. And a good designer making a good integrated will sound better than a so-so designer making separates. Having come back from listening to the one box Audio Note Meishu Phono Tonmesiter (basic entry level version) it was astonishing. If I were not a reviewer - this would be my amp. It's the best 300B I have ever heard. Big, heavy box - not exactly pretty but I understand why it's Audio Note's best selling amplifier. The Tonemiester is a lot better than the first version which wasn't my cup of tea.

I have owned the OTO Phono SE for the last 18 years but taking the M1 phono (which is the preamp in the OTO) allows for more amplifier choices and running that preamp with my Empress Silver monoblocks is vastly superior to the OTO.

You, like me, own the DAC0.1x and it's better than the DAC that is in the Cobra - my understanding is that the Cobra version is not a tube dac - it uses the chip but it's not the same thing. I did like the DAC chip more than a $2000ish CD player from Roksan that was connected to it.

But again when we talk separates - the Cobra is somewhat acting like a separate DAC for the Roksan one box player. What I would want to do is connect the 0.1x DAC to the Cobra then we can compare apples to apples.

I quite enjoyed the Cobra and IMO it's far better than what I have heard from Prima Luna or my prior Line Magnetic or what I have heard from Cayin (Cayin makes the transformers for both Line Magnetic and Prima Luna and Triode Labs (Line Magnetic makes the rest of the amp for Triode Labs). Interestingly Triode Labs makes the more affordable and best-looking amps of the lot so they are worth looking into as a cost-saving proposition. Cayin makes some great-looking amps too but the best ones only seem to be affordable here in Hong Kong and in China. The profit margin goes up too high IMO when they get to the west. I think the Cobra is the ugliest of the bunch because of the big Cobra put on the top of it and only available in black.

Still, it sounds better than pretty much any EL34 I have tried over the years precisely because it doesn't make me think Push-Pull sound. In fact, it was with the Rogers LS-3/5a (new version) where it interested me because it was the first time I actually liked the sound of those speakers. I am not surprised that Rogers has released their new tube amps and those are made by Audio Note.

You may also want to look at the Rogers e20 and possibly the A40 (they made a limited collector's edition run so they may be sold out by now) but these are both Audio Note amps under the Rogers label. Andy Whittle is the LS-3/5a guru and works for Audio Note 1 day and heads Rogers the other 4. My point is that the Rogers amps cost less than the Cobra and might be worth a look.

Ultimately, I would keep what you have. The Cobra is a really nice amp but like my OTO or the iZero or the SORO, they are inflexible. You can't upgrade them. They are great beginner amps because like all Audio Note gear they are auto-bias so if you are just starting out with tubes they sound great, the tubes last a long long time and are cheap to buy when they do need to be replaced. But none of them have preouts or prein.

And when making an upgrade I usually tell people to make sure to get a big upgrade. I don't think the Cobra would be an upgrade to what you have. I suppose you never know until you try. I would audition that Meishu Tonmesiter that could replace the Croft separates and keep your DAC. If your speakers are okay with 8 watts per channel - man it's a superb amplifier. I am considering the P3 Tonmeister - the power amp version of it. Interestingly the P3 has volume control for one source (I assume a passive attenuator) so in theory, if you only need one source you could get this instead of the integrated to save money. A second-hand one (rare) comes up it might be around the same money as a new Cobra.

Well that's a very comprehensive reply - much appreciated.

I guess as you say it's all about trying the Cobra and see if its at least musical in a small form factor.

Daniel Qvortrup (DQ) has responded that he's confident the Cobra would better my current system with the Croft separates (but I guess he would say that).

Another suggestion from DQ, because I only have a single source, is to partner my existing 0.1x with an AN P1 SE Power Amp, which is essentially an OTO SE with only one input, which makes it a little cheaper, and also physically more compact.

I was a little concerned about the low 10 Watts your get from a P1, so DQ put forward another recommended alternative in a Single Ended design; the P2 SE (poweramp version of the SORO), at 18 watts. The Cobra of course has a lot more power at 28 watts, but is Push-Pull. I like the way DQ says "but is Push-Pull".

So, SE (Single Ended) sounds interesting. What are your thoughts about this recommendation?
 
Well that's a very comprehensive reply - much appreciated.

I guess as you say it's all about trying the Cobra and see if its at least musical in a small form factor.

Daniel Qvortrup (DQ) has responded that he's confident the Cobra would better my current system with the Croft separates (but I guess he would say that).

Another suggestion from DQ, because I only have a single source, is to partner my existing 0.1x with an AN P1 SE Power Amp, which is essentially an OTO SE with only one input, which makes it a little cheaper, and also physically more compact.

I was a little concerned about the low 10 Watts your get from a P1, so DQ put forward another recommended alternative in a Single Ended design; the P2 SE (poweramp version of the SORO), at 18 watts. The Cobra of course has a lot more power at 28 watts, but is Push-Pull. I like the way DQ says "but is Push-Pull".

So, SE (Single Ended) sounds interesting. What are your thoughts about this recommendation?

I have not heard the Croft so perhaps DQ has. Of course he has a vested interest. Nevertheless, the OTO SE is a lot better than the OTO PP. and in terms of power - it's not really a lot more.

It takes a doubling of power to get a 3dB gain in SPL. So an 18 watt amp that puts out 100dB from the speakers will need a 36 watt amp to get you to 103dB. The Cobra can't even give you that gain over the SORO. 3dB is not very noticable.

It takes 10dB to be perceives as "doubling" the volume level to your ear.

So if you have 90dB speakers with the SORO (P2SE)
90dB - 1watt
93dB - 2 watts
96dB - 4 watts
99dB - 8 watts (The OTO/P1SE)
102dB - 16 watts (This is the SORO/PS2SE)
105dB - 32 watts
108dB - 64 watts
111dB - 128watts (this amp will be "twice as loud to your ear over the SORO/P2SE)
114dB - 256watts
117dB - 512 watts
120dB - 1024 watts

Of course, many speakers have a maximum watt number so if the speaker can only handle 150 watts then it probably can't muster more than 112dB based on the chart above if the speaker is 90dB sensitive.

But most people listen in the 70-80dB range. If you download an SPL meter app to your phone - sit in your chair and measure how loud you play. People are often surprised that they are not listening anywhere near 95dB let alone 100+dB.

Further, add in the second harmonic distortion clipping (or soft clipping) of tube amplifiers and they are often perceived to be equal to SS amplifiers at 2-3 times the power - so a 20-watt tube amp seems like a 40-60 watt SS amp). All a lot to consider and if power is something that concerns you it is best to try and audition first or be able to return it if you don't like it.

Or you know - buy more sensitive speakers so you can buy amps based on sound quality over power quantity.
 


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