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Apple unethical...

That'd be that "better than the rest of us" attitude I mentioned earlier.

Linux is a very good server operating system, but a very limited PC one unless your requirements are very basic and you're also able to support it yourself [...]

It's nice that the comments so far are substantially supporting my initially stated points!

I think you and I both know that you've never used a proper Linux system as a PC system, at least not recently. It's blindingly obvious. And pretending to have done so and coming here to make those statements, which are astonishingly false, is mind boggling. To describe the possibilities as only for 'very basic requirements' is comical for any actual Linux user, experienced or otherwise.

Nothing has supported your view. Every single point made is erroneous.
 
That'd be that "better than the rest of us" attitude I mentioned earlier.

Linux is a very good server operating system, but a very limited PC one unless your requirements are very basic and you're also able to support it yourself. For the vast majority of the population Windows is a much better choice, which is why so many use it and so few use Linux.

It's nice that the comments so far are substantially supporting my initially stated points!
I think that you are out of your depth. It doesn't matter how many years and experience someone has in IT if they don't understamd how computers work.

Maybe you are confusing a GUI with an O/S?

DV
 
You'd have to be an idiot to think otherwise... ;)

Lol, blatantly a wind up ;). I did come from Windows, as I was a die hard Windows fan back in the day and would fight the corner vigorously...but since going Apple, I've never looked back. Apple is a far better OS for the consumer market, who want something that just does its job, and does it well.

By the sounds of Linux these days, it's simply not appropriate for the consumer market, and would lead people into dark holes with all its 'abilities' without having any major easily accessible instant technical support. So in that sense, Windows does sound better than Linux. It comes down to preference between the two. I've never known a long term Apple user to go back to Windows though.
 
From the perspective of a Windows 10 user, watching the Linux and Apple fanboys squabble is very cute. Like toddlers play fighting while the adults stand and shake their heads.

I'll leave you to it now.
 
Whats better then? for a home consumer user? with the same levels of support/ease of use etc

From a personal perspective I’d say iPadOS on a iPad Pro. It is very seldom my computer (a 9 year old MBP) gets booted up now as everything I need to do can be done easily enough from the tablet. The MBP is used for server admin, pfm accounting as I like a proper keyboard (an old IBM Model M) for real data entry, and Logic Pro X for music creation. The iPad does everything else. Tablets are a game-changer IMO, Star Trek technology, right now in my lifetime!

PS I do get the Linux argument, and obviously the pfm server runs on it as does most of the internet. From a strictly personal perspective I just can’t be arsed with it, I’d still need a Mac for Logic Pro, so why bother? I’m an ex-IT trainer, programmer, network manager, IT manager with a lot of very high profile contracts etc on my CV, but I’ve hit that age now where I just want a simple solution that works at home. Screw anything that demands a lot of research or faff if it isn’t paying me £50+ an hour! The iPad is just fine! I’ve no interest at all in going back to the cutting edge again, there are too many jazz records to listen to!
 
From the perspective of a Windows 10 user, watching the Linux and Apple fanboys squabble is very cute. Like toddlers play fighting while the adults stand and shake their heads.

I'll leave you to it now.
And only few posts ago you accused others of having a superior 'better than the rest of us' attitude. Life is stranger than fiction indeed.
 
From the perspective of a Windows 10 user, watching the Linux and Apple fanboys squabble is very cute. Like toddlers play fighting while the adults stand and shake their heads.

I'll leave you to it now.

Lol, its made me laugh too.

Even funny when a user has been on a Hifi forum for 13 days and never once participated in any Hifi discussion, but went somewhat crazy on an Apple thread. lols.

From a personal perspective I’d say iPadOS on a iPad Pro. It is very seldom my computer (a 9 year old MBP) gets booted up now as everything I need to do can be done easily enough from the tablet. The MBP is used for server admin, pfm accounting as I like a proper keyboard (an old IBM Model M) for real data entry, and Logic Pro X for music creation. The iPad does everything else. Tablets are a game-changer IMO, Star Trek technology, right now in my lifetime!

PS I do get the Linux argument, and obviously the pfm server runs on it as does most of the internet. From a strictly personal perspective I just can’t be arsed with it, I’d still need a Mac for Logic Pro, so why bother? I’m an ex-IT trainer, programmer, network manager, IT manager with a lot of very high profile contracts etc on my CV, but I’ve hit that age now where I just want a simple solution that works at home. Screw anything that demands a lot of research or faff if it isn’t paying me £50+ an hour! The iPad is just fine! I’ve no interest at all in going back to the cutting edge again, there are too many jazz records to listen to!

Thats generally what the conversation was about. IOS is just a simple solution that does its job, and well, is cross platform/device, and for the general consumer market, that is what is needed hence partly why Apple became so successful in my view. I definitely don't need to be teaching my 70 year old dad how to use Linux, but he adapted to the Macbook I bought him on his own very quickly, and loves being able to log on to Apple Support and get help anytime he wishes. Priceless really.

Apple gives stress free computing. I felt like I was 'freed' when I got rid of my PC and Windows.
 
By the sounds of Linux these days, it's simply not appropriate for the consumer market, and would lead people into dark holes with all its 'abilities' without having any major easily accessible instant technical support. So in that sense, Windows does sound better than Linux. It comes down to preference between the two. I've never known a long term Apple user to go back to Windows though.
Which 'sounds'? Only the ones selected? All major Linux distributions are all simple out-of-the-box OS systems that work for any user. They've purposefully done this because of the old criticism that it was all command line operation. Something which hasn't been the case for almost two decades!

Anyone who has backed away from what is going on in that time can't really comment.
 
Lol, its made me laugh too.

Even funny when a user has been on a Hifi forum for 13 days and never once participated in any Hifi discussion, but went somewhat crazy on an Apple thread. lols.

I like hi-fi and use it often, but I don't obsess over it or buy expensive cables. There are other interesting things to discuss alongside, like music or current affairs and that's legit here too. When I have a particular hi-fi issue I can't solve I'll post here about it. Or should I call the hi-fi support?

Don't classify me pointing out your computer inexperience as 'going somewhat crazy', it's transparently cheap.
 
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Thats generally what the conversation was about. IOS is just a simple solution that does its job, and well, is cross platform/device, and for the general consumer market, that is what is needed hence partly why Apple became so successful in my view. I definitely don't need to be teaching my 70 year old dad how to use Linux, but he adapted to the Macbook I bought him on his own very quickly, and loves being able to log on to Apple Support and get help anytime he wishes. Priceless really.

Apple gives stress free computing. I felt like I was 'freed' when I got rid of my PC and Windows.

I guess I’m actually trying to make the point about tablet vs desktop or laptop computing. From a home user perspective I find it so far beyond bizarre that some folk actually still sit at a desk with a computer base unit, monitor and keyboard on it. That’s Commodore PET/BBC B/PC XT-era computing. Pure nostalgia! I totally get it if you are a really hardcore gamer who needs crazy power, hot-running graphics cards and a huge screen for that immersive experience, or if you are say an architect working from home, but the average home user should be able to do anything they want with an iPad or equivalent anywhere they choose to sit down for a while, e.g. in front of the hi-fi, TV, out in the back garden or whatever. It is such a free and liberating way of working IMO.
 
Linux is a great server operating system, if you can't afford a proper version of Unix.

I agree, but in the past 5-10 years, there was no stopping the corporate momentum away from propriatary UNIX-based OS's and towards lesser featured open source Linux variants like Red Hast and SUSE. Doesn't alleviate the need for enterprise level support though. It is why IBM bought Red Hat!

The history of MacOS is interesting and worth a read for this who are really interested. It started off as a BSD-based UNIX, then added NeXT features. Currently it is based on Darwin, which is Apple's open source OS. IMO, some of the derogatory comments in this thread portray Apple as merely a consumer of open source. The truth is they are also a major contributor. In addition to providing code for many large open source projects, Apple also currently owns and maintains 136 GitHub repositories.
 
I guess I’m actually trying to make the point about tablet vs desktop or laptop computing. From a home user perspective I find it so far beyond bizarre that some folk actually still sit at a desk with a computer base unit, monitor and keyboard on it. That’s Commodore PET/BBC B/PC XT-era computing. Pure nostalgia! I totally get it if you are a really hardcore gamer who needs crazy power, hot-running graphics cards and a huge screen for that immersive experience, or if you are say an architect working from home, but the average home user should be able to do anything they want with an iPad or equivalent anywhere they choose to sit down for a while, e.g. in front of the hi-fi, TV, out in the back garden or whatever. It is such a free and liberating way of working IMO.

Maybe that's where I get it from, I loved my Commodore 64! But I cannot get to grips with using a tablet at all, still my Macbook user if I need a comfy space, but I do use my Imac for work, but I think that's because I do a lot of design and CAD these days, and it puts me into 'work' mode sitting at a desk with a big screen.

However, as you say, the average home user can do pretty much everything on an iPad and dosent need a clunky old PC with fans whirring away to do it. This is where Apple powers ahead.
 
I agree, but in the past 5-10 years, there was no stopping the corporate momentum away from propriatary UNIX-based OS's and towards lesser featured open source Linux variants like Red Hast and SUSE. Doesn't alleviate the need for enterprise level support though. It is why IBM bought Red Hat!

All my servers run Oracle Enterprise Linux, which to a significant extent was Oracle putting two fingers up to IBM.
 
All my servers run Oracle Enterprise Linux, which to a significant extent was Oracle putting two fingers up to IBM.

Yes it was! Oracle is another good example of a manufacturer being on-trend with Linux, using Red Hat as their source, and building a high margin services business on top of it.

But Solaris was still a better OS (albeit proprietary). :)
 
Yes it was! Oracle is another good example of a manufacturer being on-trend with Linux, using Red Hat as their source, and building a high margin services business on top of it.

But Solaris was still a better OS (albeit proprietary).

Oracle and Sun are two of the manufacturers I've worked for. I've even worked for both at the same time (long before Oracle acquired Sun) as I was part of the Oracle team that implemented Oracle Manufacturing into the Sun plant in Linlithgow back in the 90's. I liked Solaris although I think I marginally preferred HP-UX.
 
Delighted too. Had a problem with upgrading OS on an old iPad. Well out of warranty but they offered to provide a refurbished one at no charge. Looked like a new one.
Which reminds me … some years ago had an iPad, ever so occasionally WiFi signal wouldn’t be as strong as my wife’s sitting next to me, happened to be on holiday in London, went into Regent St Apple store, said I’m probably imagining it but my iPads wifi doesn’t seem as strong as my wife’s iPad, guy took it in the back, I waited, he came out, have a new one he said. And it was brand new, not a refurb. Customer for life. Switching our computing to Apple was best move I’ve ever made.
 
Oracle and Sun are two of the manufacturers I've worked for. I've even worked for both at the same time (long before Oracle acquired Sun) as I was part of the Oracle team that implemented Oracle Manufacturing into the Sun plant in Linlithgow back in the 90's. I liked Solaris although I think I marginally preferred HP-UX.

I was at Sun from 1984 until 2001, HP from 2001-2003, and IBM from 2004 until retirement late last year. Solaris, HP-UX and AIX all had their strengths and weaknesses. I am most familiar with SunOS/Solaris as my first 10 years at Sun were in tech jobs (development, consulting, pre-sales engineering). I came on board as Sun was starting to transition from BSD to SVR3. As I was already very familiar with SVR3, one of my first jobs was training developers on internals, device drivers, system calls, and so on. By the time I reached IBM, I was just another dumb rep. :)

Did your time at Sun overlap with mine?
 


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