paulfromcamden
Baffled
Google 'baby groupies' - the women involved have also implicated Bowie, Iggy Pop and a bunch of others. I think Jimmy Page got away with it because he wasn't alone.
Horrendous crimes and musicians.
- Thread starter stairpost
- Start date
Google 'baby groupies' - the women involved have also implicated Bowie, Iggy Pop and a bunch of others. I think Jimmy Page got away with it because he wasn't alone.
stairpost
Average at best.
Not famous, but an ex from a while ago was friends with Adrian Ringland (worth a google), we spent a few weekends staying with him & his family over the years. We wondered why we hadn't heard from him, then it became very obvious.
kasperhauser
pfm Member
I still listen to Spade Cooley. And Derek and the Dominoes, for that matter. Take all the Jim Gordon records out of your collection and you might miss some great music.
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
I’ve met one that I know of, albeit not a musician. Son-in-law of a friend, seemed a decent sort, good company, stood his round... then suddenly he was in clink. His little habit had been completely hidden from his wife and kids, in-laws and most definitely me.
stairpost
Average at best.
That's the thing, the chap I knew that was convicted of particularly heinous acts was a nice guy, a family man that was very 'normal'. Even after his guilt was proven beyond doubt, I wasn't able to look back and think oh yeah it's obvious now.
boneman
pfm Member
Or Jerry Lee Lewis who married his 13 yo cousin!
It destroyed his career
boneman
pfm Member
I wouldn't say destroyed. He's never stopped performing and as of this writing his net worth is 16+ million.
I don’t judge his career on net worth. He was far, far bigger in the 50s, he went from earning massive sums to practically nothing overnight. For many years he didn’t even have a record deal. He would have been massive otherwise.
Colonel_Mad
pfm Member
It does all seem to depend on who the person was and how cool they were. I find it hard to see why you’d smash Rolf Harris LPs in the back room of a charity shop but not the many more fashionable sex pests and paedos across the decades.
I don’t know really what my personal filter is in this area. I know I’ve found myself standing up for Morrissey when rebuked for still listening to his music by a massive Michael Jackson fan. Strange situation but I was happy with my position.
I don’t know really what my personal filter is in this area. I know I’ve found myself standing up for Morrissey when rebuked for still listening to his music by a massive Michael Jackson fan. Strange situation but I was happy with my position.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
I have that too. The song is a cracker and Don and Bob (I agree..who?) 's version is superb. It is also a very old song with a long history. The thing is this.. kids in the US were in school to older ages..and it is also not known how old the 'narrator' of the song is, so that assuming some impropriety is stretching a point. I suspect Peel was having a laugh. In the real world..all of us blokes started our appreciation of girls by having the hots for girls of our own age..when we were still in school..
https://www.discogs.com/artist/884025-Don-Bob
Even Van Morrison in 'Cyprus Avenue' ...sitting in a car and watching a schoolgirl pass..who he eventually states is 14 years old.. is very much looking but not touching.
Spector was a bully, and it seems, a murderer. Was he a paedophile?
I think we need..among other things.. to distinguish between thoughts and actions. Is there a man here who can honestly say that he has never seen a girl under 18 years of age and thought she was beautiful? There is a whole world between that and taking advantage.
One of BB King's best known songs is 'Sweet Sixteen'. It's a fabulous blues.. and has only attracted any negative comment, to my knowledge.. in recent years. The age of consent in the UK is currently 16. In the US it varies between 16 and 18..with the majority being 16.'Sweet 16' was something of a 'meme' back in the 50's and 60s and included in numerous songs, with no hint that it was perverse. (See: 'Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen', 'You're Sixteen, You're Beautiful, and You're Mine'. 'Only Sixteen', 'Sweet Little Sixteen' etc.,etc.)
FireMoon
pfm Member
They went after John Peel big time when the huge Tory fan Savile was exposed. Problem was, the lass involved, made it plain in the "tell all interview" that, she lied about her age and Peel had no idea she was underage.
Unfortunately, the press will time and time again throw the borderline cases forward in place of reporting on the connections between the rich and powerful and international child trafficking. For instance, they are still pushing the narrative that Ghislaine Maxwell was Epstein's sidekick, she wasn't, she was the boss, Epstein was her second in command. Her father introduced her to Epstein in 1985, not when the press claims and he was chosen to carry on the Maxwell family business of spying. I have a copy of a memo from the CIA from 1951 which speaks of Maxwell being a business partner and a front a known "Stasi agent", the Brits knew it and he was still allowed to enter Parliament and own a national newspaper. The CIA also knew and informed the UK about Maxwell having 6 fake IDs and the claim he was a Bohemian Jew has no supporting paperwork at all, as that part of Bohemia was under dispute around the time of his birth and no official records still exist.
Take Jack Nicholson, 3rd biggest box office draw in the USA in 1974, didn't make a movie in Hollywood for how many years after the Polanski affair? The Shining was filmed in Oregon and the UK and Nicholson was only accepted for the role after Kubrick threatened to walk if he didn't get it. The original actor the studio wanted was Michael Moriarty. There's a quote somewhere that goes a\long the lines of "The best performance Angelica Huston has ever given was for the Grand Jury over the Polanski incident". On the other hand, papers exist that show that both the FBI and the CIA wanted to take down down liberal stars and that they specifically targeted Polanski, Fonda and Nicholson. In short, as guilty as Polanski might be, there's evidence it was illegal entrapment in the first place.
There is a large wedge of evidence that both the UK and the USA along with Russia and others regularly used children as traps for forcing people to spy for them. For instance, one of the people responsible for the Birmingham pub bombings had been caught by the RUC with a 14 year old girl and turned. That's why they have never been named becasue they were a British security asset and there's some serious grey area about how the Birmingham bombing happened and the role of the UK security services in it.
I watched the ITV series Manhunt tonight and there again the link between high level corruption and paedophiles arose. Namely that, the Met and Surrey police force were not trying too hard to find Milli Dowler's killer as they suspected there was link to a powerful paedophile ring. It was done subtly however, anyone who has studied what went on between Murdoch's press the Met and other home counties police forces knows what was being hinted at.
Line of Duty made it plain on more than occasion when the chief anti corruption copper said "I am sick of being told to investigate old media people when there's rampant corruption going on at high levels". One part Line Of Duty had spot on was how, when the police wanted to be seen to be investigating however, not actually really investigating the actual criminals, they a would appoint some straight copper as SIO and then , as the investigation progressed, they would be reminded of some minor infraction they had been involved in that might "come to light" should they not act as ordered from above.
There's your real issue, everyone has dirt on everyone else so nothing is ever really done about it. One of Murdoch's main attack dog journos died of AIDs they contracted from a transsexual sex worker they regularly used in their entrapment schemes. Try reading up on Peter Sutcliffe's wife and the Fleet Street editor. I come from a media family, one of my cousins , who was a leading "investigative journo " for The Sun died in a horrific road accident along with several others in the early 1980s, he was as drunk as a lord driving home from a house party when it happened at a notorious local accident black spot. Even the local press, out of loyalty to his dad a photo editor on the biggest local evening paper in the region, hardly mentioned the details of the accident.
In the wake of Savile finally being outed I spent several months helping a journo with the fall out. It was a rabbit hole both I and they eventually could no longer stand. As ever, the real victims were often ignored , for purely political reasons. The police were stopped from arresting Greville Janner on three separate occasions and yet, no-one can tell you exactly who the person was, who ordered them to not arrest him. On two occasions the police were denied search warrants to investigate "missing persons" on a certain politician's family lands. To the consternation of the investigating police, Sidney Cooke's notebook with dozens of contacts names and addresses "vanished" and they were told the case was closed and that was it "Forget it".
The number of teachers, police, clergy etc etc who literally saw "abusing kids" as "a perk of the job" is legion. I know that sounds absolutely crazy however, those very words are in numerous statements from those caught. I'm adopted, I had a wonderful female social worker who would look in on me right through my childhood. In 1979 she divorced her husband of almost 3 decades , two years later he was convicted of having sex with a 14 year old girl from a care home.
If you think this is all a "bit far fetched" go and watch the HOC committee about the Rotherham abuse issue, it's on YouTube, ironically chaired by Keith Vaz. See what I mean? How much front do you have to have to sit as head of a HOC committee on abuse when you're Keith Vaz? It's in two parts and it's long however you will clearly hear the new Chief Constable admit in the first part of the hearing that. They had no idea that a woman sent by the home office to investigate, received threatening texts saying "Don't think it can't happen to you" on her private business phone and that, that number could have only been given to the criminals by someone involved in the investigation from the South Yorkshire police. The woman had, of course, reported the incidents to the South Yorks police and yet, the Chief Constable "Knew nothing about it".
One final and very prescient point here. In the noughties one of the biggest "conspiracies" on the net was about child abuse world wide. One story that gained a lot of traction was that, in Canada in the 1940s and 1950s, whenever the Queen visited the country and went to see indigenous schools, indigenous kids vanished never to be seen again. On the surface that's patently rubbish and we all know that and yet, here we are with 1500 and rising child victims whose bodies have been found secretly buried on church schools land. That "conspiracy" was born from a stark horrible reality and just maybe, by making the seemingly wild accusations was the only way people felt that others would even bother to listen?
Since the bodies have been discovered someone I follow on social media, who is US first nation, has gone public about the conversation they overheard from the stairs as a child between their uncle and their father about what they saw them self as a child in those homes and how, "There's no way he should send his daughter to one".
Oh and artists.... check out the guy responsible for some of the ornamental railings and ironworks outside Parliament and other places around London. Now, they were truly one sick puppy sic.
Unfortunately, the press will time and time again throw the borderline cases forward in place of reporting on the connections between the rich and powerful and international child trafficking. For instance, they are still pushing the narrative that Ghislaine Maxwell was Epstein's sidekick, she wasn't, she was the boss, Epstein was her second in command. Her father introduced her to Epstein in 1985, not when the press claims and he was chosen to carry on the Maxwell family business of spying. I have a copy of a memo from the CIA from 1951 which speaks of Maxwell being a business partner and a front a known "Stasi agent", the Brits knew it and he was still allowed to enter Parliament and own a national newspaper. The CIA also knew and informed the UK about Maxwell having 6 fake IDs and the claim he was a Bohemian Jew has no supporting paperwork at all, as that part of Bohemia was under dispute around the time of his birth and no official records still exist.
Take Jack Nicholson, 3rd biggest box office draw in the USA in 1974, didn't make a movie in Hollywood for how many years after the Polanski affair? The Shining was filmed in Oregon and the UK and Nicholson was only accepted for the role after Kubrick threatened to walk if he didn't get it. The original actor the studio wanted was Michael Moriarty. There's a quote somewhere that goes a\long the lines of "The best performance Angelica Huston has ever given was for the Grand Jury over the Polanski incident". On the other hand, papers exist that show that both the FBI and the CIA wanted to take down down liberal stars and that they specifically targeted Polanski, Fonda and Nicholson. In short, as guilty as Polanski might be, there's evidence it was illegal entrapment in the first place.
There is a large wedge of evidence that both the UK and the USA along with Russia and others regularly used children as traps for forcing people to spy for them. For instance, one of the people responsible for the Birmingham pub bombings had been caught by the RUC with a 14 year old girl and turned. That's why they have never been named becasue they were a British security asset and there's some serious grey area about how the Birmingham bombing happened and the role of the UK security services in it.
I watched the ITV series Manhunt tonight and there again the link between high level corruption and paedophiles arose. Namely that, the Met and Surrey police force were not trying too hard to find Milli Dowler's killer as they suspected there was link to a powerful paedophile ring. It was done subtly however, anyone who has studied what went on between Murdoch's press the Met and other home counties police forces knows what was being hinted at.
Line of Duty made it plain on more than occasion when the chief anti corruption copper said "I am sick of being told to investigate old media people when there's rampant corruption going on at high levels". One part Line Of Duty had spot on was how, when the police wanted to be seen to be investigating however, not actually really investigating the actual criminals, they a would appoint some straight copper as SIO and then , as the investigation progressed, they would be reminded of some minor infraction they had been involved in that might "come to light" should they not act as ordered from above.
There's your real issue, everyone has dirt on everyone else so nothing is ever really done about it. One of Murdoch's main attack dog journos died of AIDs they contracted from a transsexual sex worker they regularly used in their entrapment schemes. Try reading up on Peter Sutcliffe's wife and the Fleet Street editor. I come from a media family, one of my cousins , who was a leading "investigative journo " for The Sun died in a horrific road accident along with several others in the early 1980s, he was as drunk as a lord driving home from a house party when it happened at a notorious local accident black spot. Even the local press, out of loyalty to his dad a photo editor on the biggest local evening paper in the region, hardly mentioned the details of the accident.
In the wake of Savile finally being outed I spent several months helping a journo with the fall out. It was a rabbit hole both I and they eventually could no longer stand. As ever, the real victims were often ignored , for purely political reasons. The police were stopped from arresting Greville Janner on three separate occasions and yet, no-one can tell you exactly who the person was, who ordered them to not arrest him. On two occasions the police were denied search warrants to investigate "missing persons" on a certain politician's family lands. To the consternation of the investigating police, Sidney Cooke's notebook with dozens of contacts names and addresses "vanished" and they were told the case was closed and that was it "Forget it".
The number of teachers, police, clergy etc etc who literally saw "abusing kids" as "a perk of the job" is legion. I know that sounds absolutely crazy however, those very words are in numerous statements from those caught. I'm adopted, I had a wonderful female social worker who would look in on me right through my childhood. In 1979 she divorced her husband of almost 3 decades , two years later he was convicted of having sex with a 14 year old girl from a care home.
If you think this is all a "bit far fetched" go and watch the HOC committee about the Rotherham abuse issue, it's on YouTube, ironically chaired by Keith Vaz. See what I mean? How much front do you have to have to sit as head of a HOC committee on abuse when you're Keith Vaz? It's in two parts and it's long however you will clearly hear the new Chief Constable admit in the first part of the hearing that. They had no idea that a woman sent by the home office to investigate, received threatening texts saying "Don't think it can't happen to you" on her private business phone and that, that number could have only been given to the criminals by someone involved in the investigation from the South Yorkshire police. The woman had, of course, reported the incidents to the South Yorks police and yet, the Chief Constable "Knew nothing about it".
One final and very prescient point here. In the noughties one of the biggest "conspiracies" on the net was about child abuse world wide. One story that gained a lot of traction was that, in Canada in the 1940s and 1950s, whenever the Queen visited the country and went to see indigenous schools, indigenous kids vanished never to be seen again. On the surface that's patently rubbish and we all know that and yet, here we are with 1500 and rising child victims whose bodies have been found secretly buried on church schools land. That "conspiracy" was born from a stark horrible reality and just maybe, by making the seemingly wild accusations was the only way people felt that others would even bother to listen?
Since the bodies have been discovered someone I follow on social media, who is US first nation, has gone public about the conversation they overheard from the stairs as a child between their uncle and their father about what they saw them self as a child in those homes and how, "There's no way he should send his daughter to one".
Oh and artists.... check out the guy responsible for some of the ornamental railings and ironworks outside Parliament and other places around London. Now, they were truly one sick puppy sic.
Didn’t his brother Crispin work for Walkers snacks in Leicester?
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
Interesting that this should pop up just as the 'Look Away' documentary hits TV. Rodney Bingenheimer's English Disco, Steven Tyler, Axl Rose and Kim Fowley and The Runaways feature. Steven Tyler, as did Ted Nugent, encouraged the parents of a 16 year old girl to make him her guardian so she could travel with him without raising legal problems and subsequently forced her to get a late term abortion before abandoning her.
Kim Fowley & Rodney Bingenheimer have always struck me as America's Saviles and there's nothing here to dissuade you of that. The Runaway's bassist's testimony of being given Quaaludes and raped being particularly horrifying. Axl Rose just seems to be totally ****ed up.
Kim Fowley & Rodney Bingenheimer have always struck me as America's Saviles and there's nothing here to dissuade you of that. The Runaway's bassist's testimony of being given Quaaludes and raped being particularly horrifying. Axl Rose just seems to be totally ****ed up.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Speaking out like this is not necessarily about seeking justice in the legal sense, says Cunningham, but having a voice - and trying to instigate change. "Although we are focusing on a certain era in this film, the music industry is still functioning in a very, very similar way," she says. "I spoke to so many music industry insiders who made it quite clear that nothing has changed.
...
Cunningham says there were many men who worked behind the scenes who did not want to take part in the documentary. "I think that's important thing to say," she says. "That silence, I think, speaks volumes. So although we're in a time that we've been ready for these women to speak and they feel like they have the power to speak, there are lots of men who don't want to speak out in support of these women for fear of the repercussions in the industry."
Representatives for Tyler and Rose did not respond to requests to comment or be featured in the documentary by the filmmakers, says Cunningham. Nor did they respond to requests for comment from Sky News.
Cunningham says she likes to think there might come a time when musicians, or any public faces, who behaved in a certain way when it was normalised years ago, want to acknowledge mistakes and help bring about change.
"Wouldn't you want to speak out and support these women?" she says. "Yes, accusations are being made about you, but maybe speaking out can actually, not redeem you because obviously all of these things have happened, but wouldn't it be incredible if a rock star came forward and said 'I did some really bad things and I know I hurt people and I want to campaign for change in support of these women?' I think that would be incredible. But I think silence is just an example of what many people have been doing for years. As I said, there were so many people I approached to be in this film who are prominent men within the music industry, offering them the opportunity to speak out in support of women, about a time that they were part of, and so many people didn't want to do that. And I think that silence speaks volumes, doesn't it?"
https://news.sky.com/story/steven-t...-and-the-abuse-hidden-in-plain-sight-12403960
...
Cunningham says there were many men who worked behind the scenes who did not want to take part in the documentary. "I think that's important thing to say," she says. "That silence, I think, speaks volumes. So although we're in a time that we've been ready for these women to speak and they feel like they have the power to speak, there are lots of men who don't want to speak out in support of these women for fear of the repercussions in the industry."
Representatives for Tyler and Rose did not respond to requests to comment or be featured in the documentary by the filmmakers, says Cunningham. Nor did they respond to requests for comment from Sky News.
Cunningham says she likes to think there might come a time when musicians, or any public faces, who behaved in a certain way when it was normalised years ago, want to acknowledge mistakes and help bring about change.
"Wouldn't you want to speak out and support these women?" she says. "Yes, accusations are being made about you, but maybe speaking out can actually, not redeem you because obviously all of these things have happened, but wouldn't it be incredible if a rock star came forward and said 'I did some really bad things and I know I hurt people and I want to campaign for change in support of these women?' I think that would be incredible. But I think silence is just an example of what many people have been doing for years. As I said, there were so many people I approached to be in this film who are prominent men within the music industry, offering them the opportunity to speak out in support of women, about a time that they were part of, and so many people didn't want to do that. And I think that silence speaks volumes, doesn't it?"
https://news.sky.com/story/steven-t...-and-the-abuse-hidden-in-plain-sight-12403960