advertisement


Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIV

Status
Not open for further replies.
EV’s posts are certainly well written. He also makes the point that the EU has long since jettisoned its goals for social justice as envisaged by Delores and has primarily become an enabler for big business change to the chagrin of the left on PF.

However, he seems to underplay the disruption caused by the imposition of customs controls and varying tariffs. If this pattern continues or worsens then I think the UK electorate are likely to be less forgiving and, as Johnson is strongly associated with Brexit, he will pay with his job.
 
Brian said:
If hard remainers were to behave like adults the thread wouldn't even exist. It's never been about "benefits of brexit", it's just supposed grown men behaving like fishwives.
Click to expand...

S’funny you mention fishwives, come out with that bullshit in a west coast town that relies on the shellfish industry and you’ll find yourself on the wrong end of a scallop knife.
 
Somafunk said:
S’funny you mention fishwives, come out with that bullshit in a west coast town that relies on the shellfish industry and you’ll find yourself on the wrong end of a scallop knife.
Click to expand...
Which bit was bullshit?

Why would someone try it on with a scallop knife? A fishwife is a loud, abusive woman, as understood where I come from. It is an accurate comparison with the behaviour of hard remainers here.
 
TheDecameron said:
Treasury pulls plug on Boris Burrow aka the World’s Most Stupid Tunnel. I always assumed it was hot air, like his bridge to France. Pity though, as it would have linked two future EU states!


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...land-tunnel-plans-axed?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The proposed link, described as the “world’s most stupid tunnel” by Boris Johnson’s former chief adviser Dominic Cummings, had a price tag of about £15bn and the backing of the prime minister.
Click to expand...

The 'world's most stupid tunnel' is Johnson's mouth isn't it?
 
TheDecameron said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...land-tunnel-plans-axed?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The proposed link, described as the “world’s most stupid tunnel” by Boris Johnson’s former chief adviser Dominic Cummings, had a price tag of about £15bn and the backing of the prime minister.
Click to expand...
Or, less than half the price of a disfunctional test and trace system. It still staggers me that people aren’t reaching for the pitchforks over that. Half the cost of HS2, which has been the downfall of many due to the cost, considered outrageous, but at least leaves us with a long term legacy infrastructure. How do you spaff £30+ billion in weeks, on a non-functioning system like test and trace? How does that happen and people don’t go to jail?
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Or, less than half the price of a disfunctional test and trace system. It still staggers me that people aren’t reaching for the pitchforks over that. Half the cost of HS2, which has been the downfall of many due to the cost, considered outrageous, but at least leaves us with a long term legacy infrastructure. How do you spaff £30+ billion in weeks, on a non-functioning system like test and trace? How does that happen and people don’t go to jail?
Click to expand...

I think that it must because the figure is so far beyond reason or understanding that it has shocked the entire country, including the media, the opposition, the Treasury and presumably all the various Commons Accounts Select Committees into a sort of stunned, dumbed, paralysis. I think that there would have been more of a fuss had it been £35m, because that is at least a figure that we can relate to, for example in multiples of the market values of our houses, or lottery wins. But £35bn! How is it even possible to spend that much money, and in just a few months? Where on earth did it actually go? There must surely be an audit trail?
 
Incidentally, the campaigning organisation Open Democracy has been very good at investigating this kind of thing. I should be very surprised if they're not on the case.
 
eternumviti said:
Incidentally, the campaigning organisation Open Democracy has been very good at investigating this kind of thing. I should be very surprised if they're not on the case.
Click to expand...
Yes, I suspect the GLP might have it in their sights, too.

I’m buggered if I’m going to stand for austerity to ‘pay for’ Covid, while our government hoses our money at its cronies.
 
Tory MP George Freeman on Newsnight complaining that the ‘EU is aggressively policing standards’. It seems to have come as a terrible shock. Like human rights, standards has become a dirty word in the Tory dictionary.
 
TheDecameron said:
EV, you strike me as someone who’d consider the Tax Payers Alliance as a human rights organisation.
Click to expand...

Do I now.

Tell me, what is it with the TPA? I've been on their emailing list for years, but I rarely read them. When I do, they seem to be about highlighting instances where taxpayer cash is wasted by central and local Govt. Perhaps I'm missing something?
 
eternumviti said:
Do I now.

Tell me, what is it with the TPA? I've been on their emailing list for years, but I rarely read them. When I do, they seem to be about highlighting instances where taxpayer cash is wasted by central and local Govt. Perhaps I'm missing something?
Click to expand...

Let me help you.....not often you see a mission statement trip over it's first hurdle.

Message nice and cosy in a "being in favour of motherhood and apple pie" kind of way. The vision a little more confused, as if paying appropriate levels of tax was somehow incompatible with the other aspects.

But the mission, that's a doozy. Low taxes will allow economic growth so huge that world class services will just happen and there is always too much waste and therefore unlimited scope to blame that if it doesn't. Most importantly, we (they) won't have to pay a fair shake. That might just encourage dependency.

"Our message
  • Reforming taxes and public services, cutting waste and speaking up for British taxpayers
Our vision
  • A pro-enterprise country with lower, simpler taxes funding better public services through innovation, automation and eradicating waste
Our mission

  • To make the case for fundamental reforms to taxes and public service delivery, by seizing the opportunities of Brexit and exciting new developments in technology
  • To equip a grassroots network with the tools to spread our message to millions, both on the ground and online
  • To speak up for taxpayers to those in power and bring our vision to the heart of government."
 
Spraggons Den said:
EV’s posts are certainly well written. He also makes the point that the EU has long since jettisoned its goals for social justice as envisaged by Delores and has primarily become an enabler for big business change to the chagrin of the left on PF.

However, he seems to underplay the disruption caused by the imposition of customs controls and varying tariffs. If this pattern continues or worsens then I think the UK electorate are likely to be less forgiving and, as Johnson is strongly associated with Brexit, he will pay with his job.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. I do find it frustrating that people here just glibly dismiss the stuff I post about the EU as, to take a recent fairly typical example, 'paranoid diatribes'. I actually go to a lot of trouble to research and analyse before I post. I accept that truth is often a complex and layered thing, and there are undoubtedly truths other than those that I write, but truths they nonetheless generally remain. The EC is a past master of diffusion, deflection, confusion and careful presentation, and its often very difficult to read between the lines.

On your second paragraph, I wrote the other day that there are two questions. On reflection, there are of course three;

1. Is the EU a good thing?

2. Has Brexit damaged the UK?

3. Was the UK right to leave the EU.

I increasingly believe that the answer to 1 is no. It is clearly evident that the answer to 2 is yes. The answer to 3 is a moral balance between 1 and 2. At the moment I don't know, but it will become progressively clearer over the coming months and years.
 
SteveS1 said:
Let me help you.....not often you see a mission statement trip over it's first hurdle.

Message nice and cosy in a "being in favour of motherhood and apple pie" kind of way. The vision a little more confused, as if paying appropriate levels of tax was somehow incompatible with the other aspects.

But the mission, that's a doozy. Low taxes will allow economic growth so huge that world class services will just happen and there is always too much waste and therefore unlimited scope to blame that if it doesn't. Most importantly, we (they) won't have to pay a fair shake. That might just encourage dependency.

"Our message
  • Reforming taxes and public services, cutting waste and speaking up for British taxpayers
Our vision
  • A pro-enterprise country with lower, simpler taxes funding better public services through innovation, automation and eradicating waste
Our mission

  • To make the case for fundamental reforms to taxes and public service delivery, by seizing the opportunities of Brexit and exciting new developments in technology
  • To equip a grassroots network with the tools to spread our message to millions, both on the ground and online
  • To speak up for taxpayers to those in power and bring our vision to the heart of government."
Click to expand...

I don't see anything controversial in that. Beyond the clearly obvious fact that wasting taxpayers' cash is a bad thing and certainly should be challenged, it looks like they simply have a position in the old debate between capitalism and socialism.

Is it, or is it not the case that lower taxation increases the tax take by stimulating entrepreneurialism, or that higher taxation has the opposite effect by stifling commerce?

Where is the 'T' on the UK's laffer curve?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top