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Is HiFi getting better ? Or stagnating?

M

Middlemex

pfm Member
I wonder if each new model of hifi brought out by the manufacturers is actually an improvement on the previous, or is it actually getting worse?

I say this with some experience, e.g. with Marantz amplifiers - the PM KI Ruby, which superseded the PM14S1 SE and PM11S3, was a disaster.
Similarly Yamaha have done the same with some of their new generation products, e.g. the NSF901 speakers , as a replacement for the Soavo 1 and 3. But it was also an abject failure. Their top end integrated, the AS3200, has some good qualities, but is poorer than the A-S3000, even though it costs a further £1000.

Are they just developing new models and technology fo the fun and novelty? Or do they do market research or even listen to reviews from pundits eg What HIFI?
 
Measurements might be getting better but measurements do not necessarily equate to better. I enjoy scrumping through the vintage gear to uncover gems like the Rotel 965 BX and most recently, a Rotel RQ 970BX, that I’m so excited to listen to in combination with the similar era Thorens. People generally choose what they love to hear, whether it’s a beer money Rotel or a wallet sweating Devialet. It’s a bit like fine wine. I’ve tasted a few greats, like a Margaux, Haut Brion and even a Petrus. They’ve almost always disappointed. Big build up,then nice but so what. I had a Ribera Del Duero recently, a £14 bottle that gave more lasting pleasure than any of those other wines. I like gear that is an obvious surprise, stuff that I’d expect just to be OK but then surprises me. Much more exciting and satisfying.
 
New is sometimes better, other times worst.
A vintage Luxman will sound great but they made some very crappy ones in the 90’s (L1 !) and now they are back with some pure class A integrated that brings you to audiophile nirvana instantly !
I have a few amps from mid 80’s and sometimes think hi-fi has been stagnating..........
I just grabbed a Treshold fet two preamp lately and it’s simply jaw dropping ! Can’t imagine any preamp better than this or difference would be very subtle IMO.
 
Middlemex said:
I wonder if each new model of hifi brought out by the manufacturers is actually an improvement on the previous, or is it actually getting worse?
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Depends entirely on the manufacturer IME. I’d argue the of real change over the past 25 years or so in the majority of the marketplace is really cost-cutting, the adoption of more automation-friendly manufacturing techniques, and the reduction of product size. That and computer connectivity/home automation. There are very few things that are genuinely new conceptually, to my eyes really only stuff like the top-end B&O active speakers, Devialet SAM etc, pretty much everything else either as I describe, or a gradual but focused evolution, e.g. Rega and Linn each following their own turntable design ideology several steps further down their specific road.

There have been other market shifts as the traditional audio market declines and many manufacturers at the higher end do seem to be serving a diminishing yet ever more wealthy demographic increasingly more expensive variations on previous designs.

PS There are actually very few systems I’d rate above say a 301, 3012, SPU, Quad 22/IIs and a pair of ESLs, and you could buy that in 1957! Real progress is very, very slow.
 
Cost is an important factor.

So much manufacture has been moved and "optimised"

Brands have changed ownership

Many variables
 
Hi-fi manufacturers now make products that you won’t be able to repair when they finally give up the ghost.
That’s progress. Nice.
That said, old hi-fi with off-the-shelf components and transformers will still be able to work when this happens, so don’t worry. :D
 
The price of the pricely stuff has gone up. Considerably. In 1978 a Beveridge 2SW-1 system (huge, actively driven electrostatics, you would save on power amps) costed $7000:-, that was the most expensive speaker on earth! With inflation that would be something like $18000:-. That would not buy you a Wilson SabrinaX system (small, very conventional 3 way with an tiny 8" woofer). And you still need to find a decent power amp. A pair of AR 9 (with two 12" woofers) costed a mere $750 in 1978.
 
Del monaco said:
Measurements might be getting better but measurements do not necessarily equate to better. I enjoy scrumping through the vintage gear to uncover gems like the Rotel 965 BX and most recently, a Rotel RQ 970BX, that I’m so excited to listen to in combination with the similar era Thorens. People generally choose what they love to hear, whether it’s a beer money Rotel or a wallet sweating Devialet. It’s a bit like fine wine. I’ve tasted a few greats, like a Margaux, Haut Brion and even a Petrus. They’ve almost always disappointed. Big build up,then nice but so what. I had a Ribera Del Duero recently, a £14 bottle that gave more lasting pleasure than any of those other wines. I like gear that is an obvious surprise, stuff that I’d expect just to be OK but then surprises me. Much more exciting and satisfying.
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There’s certainly an awful lot of stunning wine out there between 10 and 20 quid. The 1st growths you mention along with Petrus, sadly, are so unaffordable nowadays because they’re used as investment vehicles and will probably never be drunk. That fact absolutely boils my piss.

I would say the fact that so many people here use vintage systems tells you everything you need to know about whether users of this forum feel Hifi is improving or not in the main. That said, I did hear two of the new B&W 800 series last week and they were absolutely brilliant, albeit at very high prices.
 
HiFi has evolved with increasing levels of resolution and clarity over the decades. It's seems a key way to sell more equipment, which is kind of important to manufacturers.

I'm massively generalising, but I feel some things get lost when component / design choices are based purely on spotlighting detail. For example, the ability to portray music as a coherent whole.

Many modern systems sound rhythmically stiff to me and the musicians lack the same sense of connection and synchronisation with one another.
 
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That is a very good question...

My experience is that domestic Audio has been getting worse over the years, in particular the last 10 years or so with the introduction of computer audio. Also the use of computors, microprocessors and display screens into things like amplifiers, which are simple devices and don't need them.
 
Charlie_1 said:
HiFi has evolved with increasing levels of resolution and clarity over the decades. It's seems a key way to sell more equipment, which is kind of important to manufacturers.

I'm massively generalising, but I feel some things get lost when component / design choices are based purely on spotlighting detail, like the ability to portray music as a coherent whole.

Many modern systems sound rhythmically stiff to me and the musicians lack the same sense of connection and synchronisation with one another.
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Perceived increase in resolution is usually the result of a loudspeaker having a rising treble response, initially impressive but over time wearing,
Today it is possible to have completely full-range, transparent reproduction without any overhang or ‘boomy’ bass, which imho is a considerable advance.
Keith
 
Del monaco said:
Measurements might be getting better but measurements do not necessarily equate to better. I enjoy scrumping through the vintage gear to uncover gems like the Rotel 965 BX and most recently, a Rotel RQ 970BX, that I’m so excited to listen to in combination with the similar era Thorens. People generally choose what they love to hear, whether it’s a beer money Rotel or a wallet sweating Devialet. It’s a bit like fine wine. I’ve tasted a few greats, like a Margaux, Haut Brion and even a Petrus. They’ve almost always disappointed. Big build up,then nice but so what. I had a Ribera Del Duero recently, a £14 bottle that gave more lasting pleasure than any of those other wines. I like gear that is an obvious surprise, stuff that I’d expect just to be OK but then surprises me. Much more exciting and satisfying.
Click to expand...
Wine is a good hifi upgrade...also helps with stagnation albeit temporarily! I find whisky has a similar effect but coffee not so much?
 
One area of HiFi listening that has seen significant improvement is IMHO headphone-based listening.

Something like a pair of Sennheiser HD800 are (regardless of preferences) undeniably a technically more advanced design than anything that came before. With some music, I would say this new generation of headphones has provided many listeners with a better listening experience than they could have achieved via headphones sold 30 years ago.
 
Charlie_1 said:
HiFi has evolved with increasing levels of resolution and clarity over the decades. It's seems a key way to sell more equipment, which is kind of important to manufacturers.

I'm massively generalising, but I feel some things get lost when component / design choices are based purely on spotlighting detail, like the ability to portray music as a coherent whole.

Many modern systems sound rhythmically stiff to me and the musicians lack the same sense of connection and synchronisation with one another.
Click to expand...
I reckon the same. A concerted move towards neutrality is also responsible for this reduction in musical coherence, I feel.
 
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