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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIV

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The right kind of migrant, according to the express

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Listening to the Sarj - hilarious. Breaking election commitments are now 'brave', even 'courageous' we could have kept them, that would have been easy - yeah right. There will many more big holes in government funds and they won't be able to shift all of them to local authorities.
 
Indeed. How are they expected to continue sticking £bns in their own and donors pockets without raising taxes. That’s just crazy talk!
 
eternumviti said:
The only person who I personally know who has been a recent victim of racism was my self-evidently English stepdaughter, who was verbally racially abused on a bus in Glasgow, by a Scotsman, last year. As recounted here more than once.
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Sorry to hear about your step-daughter. My post was more about people/groups who experience on-going, pervasive racism. Any 'conversation' about its relative importance should start there and not with Brexiteers, many of whom don't have good tack record in this area - like Boris, for instance. Not sure where you'd place racism in your 'there are more important sociatal issues' list but I'd argue human rights violations are pretty serious issues.

Re: the post of the BNP, NF etc, a lot of overt racists have now gone underground. Covert racism is a thing.
 
SteveS1 said:
Listening to the Sarj - hilarious. Breaking election commitments are now 'brave', even 'courageous' we could have kept them, that would have been easy - yeah right. There will many more big holes in government funds and they won't be able to shift all of them to local authorities.
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Given Kier has all but given up on his pledges (which bodes well for any treatment of the next manifesto should they win) and the Conservatives have now given up on their Manifesto pledges, what do we *actually* have to refer to when we next vote?
 
Seeker_UK said:
Given Kier has all but given up on his pledges (which bodes well for any treatment of the next manifesto should they win) and the Conservatives have now given up on their Manifesto pledges, what do we *actually* have to refer to when we next vote?
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Form?
 
Seeker_UK said:
Only for those in Government. For the opposition, it's what they say, not what they do; can we trust their promises given their leader's *ahem* "form" with his pledges?
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Well the 'form' in this instance is to shamelessly serve and line the pockets of their backers even using a public health disaster as cover. A stream of corruption quite without equivalent in my lifetime with the 'ministers' not remotely sanctioned or removed. Riding the nationalist anti-immigration platform of an extremist party for little people, while encouraging the import of foreign often criminal wealth and laundering at the highest levels. It also involves promoting a de-regulation and removal of controls agenda making it easy to for instance, build for profit in inappropriate often dangerous locations, polute rivers and oceans all while claiming environmental protection credentials.

Can we trust opposition pledges? Probably not, but as we can't prove a negative we have to deal with what we know for sure and that is this lot have no intention of sticking to anything except their commitments to vested interests. That's enough for me to know that whatever my issues with the main opposition and there are plenty, this lot have to go.

Pointless votes for similarly unproven minority protest parties won't do that. If anything, it will ensure these criminals get away with more.
 
Tony L said:
I have never been uncritical of the EU, there are many things wrong about it, many things that can be improved, but I believe both in democracy and removing as many arbitrary national barriers as possible. As such I believe very firmly in the concept of the EU. I welcomed the obvious freedom it provided and the substantial additional protections to my human rights and civil liberties. I now find myself back being merely a “subject” to a monarchy I do not recognise as any authority over me, let alone hold the slightest respect for, and living in a largely failed state with a rigged non-representative electoral system designed from the ground up to maintain elite Conservative Party minority rule. I see my civil rights being eroded almost daily and countless previously open doors slammed in my face. Like just about everyone else my business and potential income has been damaged too.

So no, the EU was/is not perfect, but it is sure as hell a lot better than shitty Little Tory Brexitland.
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It has become an entirely predictable trope that, when forced to acknowledge that the EU has 'shortcomings', the typical EUphile will utter the same weaselish flannel about how they 'know that the EU isn't perfect' before launching into a qualification, beginning with the word 'but', that comprises a list of the reasons why they think that the EU is in fact pretty much perfect, most of them typically exhibiting a complete absence of comprehension of, or more insidiously a refusal to acknowledge, what the EU is about, and how it functions. These lists routinely offer the expressions 'democracy', 'human-rights', 'workers' rights', 'freedom' and 'civil-liberty', amongst other airy blandishments. In other words, and going right back to my post above, a profound and immovable belief that the EU stands uniquely for the utopian principles of peace, democracy, progressivism, tolerance etc...

The EU is not democratic, indeed, in the makeup of its institutions and governance it is actively anti-democratic. When, in advancing its political ambitions it has faced referenda in member States, it has routinely and without exception steamrollered on, ignoring unwelcome results, or rephrasing the question until it gets the result it wants. The EU espouses peace, indeed was founded in the ashes of world war, but is hapless and divided on foreign policy, and increasingly divisive in internal policy. Its powerful agricultural and fisheries lobbies have ensured policies that have wrought massive environmental destruction on land, and have laid waste to not only Europe's own seas, but far beyond, to those of West-Africa and the Indian Ocean, in the process collapsing the livelihoods of the coastal communites that depend on the affected fisheries. It places capital ahead of labour, permitting companies to move to regions of cheaper labour whilst prohibiting the existing labour forces from striking in response, or compelling workers in the poorer regions to migrate to the wealthier regions, depopulating and deskilling vast tracts of the eastern countries for the benefit of western capital. Working long, exhausting hours in disgusting conditions in a German meat factory for money barely sufficient to pay for the shoddiest of living conditions many miles from home is not 'freedom', it is virtual slavery, and the EU does nothing to prevent or ameliorate it, indeed actively encourages it. The EU does very little to protect your human rights, less still those meat factory workers, or your civil liberties. In fact your workers' and civil rights were hard won by the liberal, labour and trades union movements in this wretched little country which you seem to hate so much, and your liberty was won by a coalition government led by an old Etonian tory, whose force of personality was fundamental to the defeat of fascism and the subsequent halt of the march of communism, and created the peace in Europe in which the EU's foundations could be dug.

You were a 'subject' of the monarchy even within the EU, and that and the 'rigged' electoral system are matters to be dealt with within our own democracy, by encouraging and supporting worthwhile and effective opposition, and by protest. By outsourcing these things to the EU you are merely handing it to more distant and infinitely more unnaccountable power, power that does not, despite your fond musings, have your interests at heart.
 
eternumviti said:
It has become an entirely predictable trope that, when forced to acknowledge that the EU has 'shortcomings', the typical EUphile will utter the same weaselish flannel about how they 'know that the EU isn't perfect' before launching into a qualification, beginning with the word 'but', that comprises a list of the reasons why they think that the EU is in fact pretty much perfect, most of them typically exhibiting a complete absence of comprehension of, or more insidiously a refusal to acknowledge, what the EU is about, and how it functions. These lists routinely offer the expressions 'democracy', 'human-rights', 'workers' rights', 'freedom' and 'civil-liberty', amongst other airy blandishments. In other words, and going right back to my post above, a profound and immovable belief that the EU stands uniquely for the utopian principles of peace, democracy, progressivism, tolerance etc...

The EU is not democratic, indeed, in the makeup of its institutions and governance it is actively anti-democratic. When, in advancing its political ambitions it has faced referenda in member States, it has routinely and without exception steamrollered on, ignoring unwelcome results, or rephrasing the question until it gets the result it wants. The EU espouses peace, indeed was founded in the ashes of world war, but is hapless and divided on foreign policy, and increasingly divisive in internal policy. Its powerful agricultural and fisheries lobbies have ensured policies that have wrought massive environmental destruction on land, and have laid waste to not only Europe's own seas, but far beyond, to those of West-Africa and the Indian Ocean, in the process collapsing the livelihoods of the coastal communites that depend on the affected fisheries. It places capital ahead of labour, permitting companies to move to regions of cheaper labour whilst prohibiting the existing labour forces from striking in response, or compelling workers in the poorer regions to migrate to the wealthier regions, depopulating and deskilling vast tracts of the eastern countries for the benefit of western capital. Working long, exhausting hours in disgusting conditions in a German meat factory for money barely sufficient to pay for the shoddiest of living conditions many miles from home is not 'freedom', it is virtual slavery, and the EU does nothing to prevent or ameliorate it, indeed actively encourages it. The EU does very little to protect your human rights, less still those meat factory workers, or your civil liberties. In fact your workers' and civil rights were hard won by the liberal, labour and trades union movements in this wretched little country which you seem to hate so much, and your liberty was won by a coalition government led by an old Etonian tory, whose force of personality was fundamental to the defeat of fascism and the subsequent halt of the march of communism, and created the peace in Europe in which the EU's foundations could be dug.

You were a 'subject' of the monarchy even within the EU, and that and the 'rigged' electoral system are matters to be dealt with within our own democracy, by encouraging and supporting worthwhile and effective opposition, and by protest. By outsourcing these things to the EU you are merely handing it to more distant and infinitely more unnaccountable power, power that does not, despite your fond musings, have your interests at heart.
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Alphabetti Spaghetti
 
Not a single frozen potato product in Sainsbury's this morning! Not one. Chips, waffles, wedges, roast, hash browns, etc, etc. You name it. Gone.

The potato section was 100% empty. Not even 99% empty. 100%.
 
eternumviti said:
It has become an entirely predictable trope that, when forced to acknowledge that the EU has 'shortcomings', the typical EUphile will utter the same weaselish flannel about how they 'know that the EU isn't perfect' before launching into a qualification, beginning with the word 'but', that comprises a list of the reasons why they think that the EU is in fact pretty much perfect, most of them typically exhibiting a complete absence of comprehension of, or more insidiously a refusal to acknowledge, what the EU is about, and how it functions. These lists routinely offer the expressions 'democracy', 'human-rights', 'workers' rights', 'freedom' and 'civil-liberty', amongst other airy blandishments. In other words, and going right back to my post above, a profound and immovable belief that the EU stands uniquely for the utopian principles of peace, democracy, progressivism, tolerance etc...

The EU is not democratic, indeed, in the makeup of its institutions and governance it is actively anti-democratic. When, in advancing its political ambitions it has faced referenda in member States, it has routinely and without exception steamrollered on, ignoring unwelcome results, or rephrasing the question until it gets the result it wants. The EU espouses peace, indeed was founded in the ashes of world war, but is hapless and divided on foreign policy, and increasingly divisive in internal policy. Its powerful agricultural and fisheries lobbies have ensured policies that have wrought massive environmental destruction on land, and have laid waste to not only Europe's own seas, but far beyond, to those of West-Africa and the Indian Ocean, in the process collapsing the livelihoods of the coastal communites that depend on the affected fisheries. It places capital ahead of labour, permitting companies to move to regions of cheaper labour whilst prohibiting the existing labour forces from striking in response, or compelling workers in the poorer regions to migrate to the wealthier regions, depopulating and deskilling vast tracts of the eastern countries for the benefit of western capital. Working long, exhausting hours in disgusting conditions in a German meat factory for money barely sufficient to pay for the shoddiest of living conditions many miles from home is not 'freedom', it is virtual slavery, and the EU does nothing to prevent or ameliorate it, indeed actively encourages it. The EU does very little to protect your human rights, less still those meat factory workers, or your civil liberties. In fact your workers' and civil rights were hard won by the liberal, labour and trades union movements in this wretched little country which you seem to hate so much, and your liberty was won by a coalition government led by an old Etonian tory, whose force of personality was fundamental to the defeat of fascism and the subsequent halt of the march of communism, and created the peace in Europe in which the EU's foundations could be dug.

You were a 'subject' of the monarchy even within the EU, and that and the 'rigged' electoral system are matters to be dealt with within our own democracy, by encouraging and supporting worthwhile and effective opposition, and by protest. By outsourcing these things to the EU you are merely handing it to more distant and infinitely more unnaccountable power, power that does not, despite your fond musings, have your interests at heart.
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In one sentence...the EU are more competent, honest, electorally accountable and have killed fewer of their population than those now running the UK.

And in orders of magnitude. It's that easy.
 
eternumviti said:
It has become an entirely predictable trope that, when forced to acknowledge that the EU has 'shortcomings', the typical EUphile will utter the same weaselish flannel about how they 'know that the EU isn't perfect' before launching into a qualification, beginning with the word 'but', that comprises a list of the reasons why they think that the EU is in fact pretty much perfect, most of them typically exhibiting a complete absence of comprehension of, or more insidiously a refusal to acknowledge, what the EU is about, and how it functions. These lists routinely offer the expressions 'democracy', 'human-rights', 'workers' rights', 'freedom' and 'civil-liberty', amongst other airy blandishments. In other words, and going right back to my post above, a profound and immovable belief that the EU stands uniquely for the utopian principles of peace, democracy, progressivism, tolerance etc...

The EU is not democratic, indeed, in the makeup of its institutions and governance it is actively anti-democratic. When, in advancing its political ambitions it has faced referenda in member States, it has routinely and without exception steamrollered on, ignoring unwelcome results, or rephrasing the question until it gets the result it wants. The EU espouses peace, indeed was founded in the ashes of world war, but is hapless and divided on foreign policy, and increasingly divisive in internal policy. Its powerful agricultural and fisheries lobbies have ensured policies that have wrought massive environmental destruction on land, and have laid waste to not only Europe's own seas, but far beyond, to those of West-Africa and the Indian Ocean, in the process collapsing the livelihoods of the coastal communites that depend on the affected fisheries. It places capital ahead of labour, permitting companies to move to regions of cheaper labour whilst prohibiting the existing labour forces from striking in response, or compelling workers in the poorer regions to migrate to the wealthier regions, depopulating and deskilling vast tracts of the eastern countries for the benefit of western capital. Working long, exhausting hours in disgusting conditions in a German meat factory for money barely sufficient to pay for the shoddiest of living conditions many miles from home is not 'freedom', it is virtual slavery, and the EU does nothing to prevent or ameliorate it, indeed actively encourages it. The EU does very little to protect your human rights, less still those meat factory workers, or your civil liberties. In fact your workers' and civil rights were hard won by the liberal, labour and trades union movements in this wretched little country which you seem to hate so much, and your liberty was won by a coalition government led by an old Etonian tory, whose force of personality was fundamental to the defeat of fascism and the subsequent halt of the march of communism, and created the peace in Europe in which the EU's foundations could be dug.

You were a 'subject' of the monarchy even within the EU, and that and the 'rigged' electoral system are matters to be dealt with within our own democracy, by encouraging and supporting worthwhile and effective opposition, and by protest. By outsourcing these things to the EU you are merely handing it to more distant and infinitely more unnaccountable power, power that does not, despite your fond musings, have your interests at heart.
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EV you know very well that nobody is forced to work in a German meat factory (what is this meat fascination ?) so it must be sufficiently rewarding to do so whatever you think.
You can always find minor criticisms of anything as large as the EU but for the vast majority of citizens it is a plus: certainly there is no indication that any other member country would be mad enough to follow the UK.
A 'hapless and divided' (aka nuanced and respectful of each country's opinion) foreign policy is certainly better than an American war machine.
I am glad if the EU confronts Hungary and Poland anti-democratic moves. It is exactly why the EU is so important.
The EU has the interests of EU citizens at heart and that is as it should be.
 
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eternumviti said:
Ah, Nick G's version of covering his ears and singing 'LA-LA-LA!'.

Nice one, Nick, well done.



A mixture of bollox and irrelevant deflection.
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No, the truth as to why it was pig-shit stupid to leave. We're all worse off, there is a huge death toll, there are food shortages and the government is blatantly stealing from us.
Bollocks and irrelevant...exactly how? It's demonstrably true, and I don't know about you, but its pretty relevant to to me, and I imagine, head in sand aside, it is for you.
The EU...they may have had some flaws. But the Johnson's government is one big flawed agregate of flaws. What have they done since election which is honest and competent? And don't say the vaccine, you know very well any success there is in spite of them, not because of.
Jesus, you DARE to compare the EU to these racist fascist crooks?
 
Minio said:
That's odd. Two 7.5kg bags were delivered to this address by Morrisons only yesterday.
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I was talking about the frozen potato section. In (a) Sainsbury's. Frozen. In a Sainsbury's.

In fact, here it is...

I see they had the 'What's for dinner tonight?' sticker. Certainly not any frozen potato products. That is for sure.

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