Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
Lee Harris, of Nick Mason's Saucerful of Secrets, shares some bits of insight into Syd Barrett and David Gilmour parts.
Guitar talk: acoustic, bass, classical, twelve string? You name it! Pt III
- Thread starter Seeker_UK
- Start date
Lee Harris, of Nick Mason's Saucerful of Secrets, shares some bits of insight into Syd Barrett and David Gilmour parts.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
Sitting on the couch plunking around and couldn’t remember if I’ve shared pics of this one yet. Mid-60s Airline Bighorn in somewhat rare single pickup configuration. Impulse purchase. I had the frets done and it’s just a lot of fun. Weighs nothing, holds tune, sounds mellower and moodier than you’d think, with a bit of honk if you push things.
(1) Was that made by Kay?
(2) I bet Daniel Lanois has one, or if he doesn't, wants one.
Johnjo
pfm Member
martin clark
pinko bodger
yep, the descant and perfect fifths killed me.
kasperhauser
pfm Member
Yeah, I think it probably was. As I'm sure you know, a number of companies made guitars for Airline (same as Silvertone), but the pickup on this is definitely an old Kay wafer.
If Lanois doesn't have one already, I'll give him mine in exchange for a few lap steel lessons.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
Have you watched Rick Beato's interview with Ron Carter @Tony L ? Fascinating to hear him talk about jazz clubs in NYC the early 60s.
My old colleague Tommy was extremely good looking, is married to a catwalk model, when in the army used to parachute to the top of mountains and then ski into enemy territory and once shot a tank with a sniper rifle. Tommy has less cool points than Ron Carter.
My old colleague Tommy was extremely good looking, is married to a catwalk model, when in the army used to parachute to the top of mountains and then ski into enemy territory and once shot a tank with a sniper rifle. Tommy has less cool points than Ron Carter.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
I am now "up north" in my new home. Which means I can turn my amplifier up and run it at the famous edge of breakup "sweet spot" with all natural tube compression and distortion. Which of course does basically sound very much like the large number of touch sensitive, low to mid overdrive pedals I have 
A 5W amp is a weird thing though as it's really very loud. Although it breaks up from not much more than 2 if you don't back the guitar volume off and I suppose if I had a Fender Deluxe or even a Princeton that would be bonkers loud.
A 5W amp is a weird thing though as it's really very loud. Although it breaks up from not much more than 2 if you don't back the guitar volume off and I suppose if I had a Fender Deluxe or even a Princeton that would be bonkers loud.
DarrenW
Oxygen User
cool to have the opportunity to turn it up matthew - my fuchs has a pre amp so volume is easier as a result - its 100w would be totally pointless otherwise as its very much a bedroom guitarist amp, never quite got the sound i wanted from a few lower wattage amps i have tried including a nice sheldon 3 watt and marshall 15w stack
Tony L
Administrator
Still loving the 6 Watt Rift Princeton clone. I never play loud enough to get breakup from it, but it still sounds amazing in the way really good valve amps do. I guess it brings a fatness and slight compression, plus a lovely spring reverb. I’m actually finding I can get all the breakup I want from the Reeves 2N2Face as it responds so well to the guitar volume knob and playing style. As time goes on I’m moving more and more to the ‘Bob & Ramon Show’/‘Doug & Pat Show’ mindset that all you actually need is a really good guitar, a really good amp and maybe one dirt pedal. Obviously I still need several pedals for attempted shoegaze etc, but I just plug them in when that urge hits. The default rig now is just guitar, fuzz, amp. That goes anywhere from fake jazz to punk with nothing more than the guitar vol knob and playing style.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
It's interesting that the pedal I use the most is my JHS Morning Glory which is a fantastic OD pedal and definitely my if-you-could-only have one pedal. For the longest time it has been my always on pedal, but really that's because it's the perfect make your small amp sound like it's on 4.5/5.5 pedal and so is great when you live in a flat. But now that I can turn my amp to that 4.5/5.5 sweet spot, it's an open question about whether I actually need it?
Also playing with the MG and and a single coil vs humbucker guitars, it occurs to me when people say "transparent" what they really mean is a pedal allows you to attenuate and control the relationship between the pickups and the front of the amp and optionally add some gain. If you have access to volume I suspect you can do a lot of what the MG does with a combination of amp controls and changing guitars.
I think a lot of this was because I wanted to play a real tube amp turned up because prior to getting my first valve amp a few years ago I had never had access to those sounds. But now that I have actually done it these premium OD pedals like the Morning Glory really do get very close both in terms of sound, touch sensitivity and "feel".
The other two things I would say about my pedals is they have given me an appreciation of the Mick and Dan argument for an amp with headroom. As much as 90% of my noodling is guitar > Morning Glory > Amp I do also like the different sounds swapping between different types of dirt. My fuzz (Fender Pelt) offers a gazillion sounds, there is nothing quite like a DS-1 when you are in the mood and Morning Glory and Tumnus is a brilliant combo for stacking. I also have a basic compressor although mostly I think this is just because everyone says you should have one, and I basically never actually turn it on (Nile Rodgers i am not).
Finally, two other big things for me:
1. I love clean sounds. Partly because my Morgan just sounds lovely and partly because Tremolo + a Black Face style amp is my favourite guitar sound ever at least when it comes to playing.
2. I am enjoying my Memory Man hugely. It just makes more interesting sounds than the Flashback I had previously even though that pedal could do any type of delay. The Memory Man is a bit like the fuzz it's got so many knobs it basically has a million sounds.
Also playing with the MG and and a single coil vs humbucker guitars, it occurs to me when people say "transparent" what they really mean is a pedal allows you to attenuate and control the relationship between the pickups and the front of the amp and optionally add some gain. If you have access to volume I suspect you can do a lot of what the MG does with a combination of amp controls and changing guitars.
I think a lot of this was because I wanted to play a real tube amp turned up because prior to getting my first valve amp a few years ago I had never had access to those sounds. But now that I have actually done it these premium OD pedals like the Morning Glory really do get very close both in terms of sound, touch sensitivity and "feel".
The other two things I would say about my pedals is they have given me an appreciation of the Mick and Dan argument for an amp with headroom. As much as 90% of my noodling is guitar > Morning Glory > Amp I do also like the different sounds swapping between different types of dirt. My fuzz (Fender Pelt) offers a gazillion sounds, there is nothing quite like a DS-1 when you are in the mood and Morning Glory and Tumnus is a brilliant combo for stacking. I also have a basic compressor although mostly I think this is just because everyone says you should have one, and I basically never actually turn it on (Nile Rodgers i am not).
Finally, two other big things for me:
1. I love clean sounds. Partly because my Morgan just sounds lovely and partly because Tremolo + a Black Face style amp is my favourite guitar sound ever at least when it comes to playing.
2. I am enjoying my Memory Man hugely. It just makes more interesting sounds than the Flashback I had previously even though that pedal could do any type of delay. The Memory Man is a bit like the fuzz it's got so many knobs it basically has a million sounds.
-alan-
pfm Member
^ I dont think that's as daft a scheme as many think
There are more guitars out there than players these days (I reckon). Guitar collecting is a thing - witness the price of older guitars with provenance. I see the buying and selling of more desirable guitars as now being more akin to the way works of art are bought and sold. The art market thrives on manipulation of prices and perceived demand by a relatively small percentage of market makers / individuals in the know - there's no more intrinsic value in a Jackson Pollock artwork than a 6th formers A-level art project, but the perceived values differ wildly.
Like the 'limited edition' / signature / touched by the Hand of Murphy ranges - Gibson are trying to cash in by adding provenance or desirability to various production items. All they've done here is drag something once touched by the hand of Slash out of the basement - stuck an arbitrary value on it, and are allowing owners to buy in, with the hope that it will rise in value.
All they have to do to set the ball rolling is buy back a percentage of the shares at a higher price - and lo and behold.."Slash double neck shares rise in value by x% as mystery buyer moves in". Withold 1/3 of the shares (say) for themselves, throw 20k more budget into the pot to 'buy them back' and report "Gibson Slash prototype shares are now trading up x%". Go find something else in the vaults, and repeat. Cheap marketing - and maybe a tidy little earner if there are enough gullible punters out there
No ?
There are more guitars out there than players these days (I reckon). Guitar collecting is a thing - witness the price of older guitars with provenance. I see the buying and selling of more desirable guitars as now being more akin to the way works of art are bought and sold. The art market thrives on manipulation of prices and perceived demand by a relatively small percentage of market makers / individuals in the know - there's no more intrinsic value in a Jackson Pollock artwork than a 6th formers A-level art project, but the perceived values differ wildly.
Like the 'limited edition' / signature / touched by the Hand of Murphy ranges - Gibson are trying to cash in by adding provenance or desirability to various production items. All they've done here is drag something once touched by the hand of Slash out of the basement - stuck an arbitrary value on it, and are allowing owners to buy in, with the hope that it will rise in value.
All they have to do to set the ball rolling is buy back a percentage of the shares at a higher price - and lo and behold.."Slash double neck shares rise in value by x% as mystery buyer moves in". Withold 1/3 of the shares (say) for themselves, throw 20k more budget into the pot to 'buy them back' and report "Gibson Slash prototype shares are now trading up x%". Go find something else in the vaults, and repeat. Cheap marketing - and maybe a tidy little earner if there are enough gullible punters out there
No ?
Tony L
Administrator
I’m with Trogly in that the area of fail here is the items in question are one-offs and without selling that actual item there can be no accurate market price. With any other collector market the value is realised at the point of sale, or the sale of near identical items, e.g. if I find a Picasso in my attic I can be fairly sure it’s worth ‘quite a bit’, but it’s actually value is not defined until it has been sold.
In this case it appears Gibson have assigned an entirely arbitrary value to one-off items they own and have no intention to sell on the open market. How is that arbitrary valuation tested? How can it, and therefore share price fluctuate in the market? It sounds like a total scam to me.
I’m certainly not arguing against there being a collector market in the guitar world, there clearly is and even I tend not to lose money on guitars (or for that matter hi-fi). What I’m arguing here is how the initial valuation is arrived at and how it can alter given the unproven nature of the specific instruments. As pointed out in the video Gibson prototypes are definitely ‘a thing’, but they simply do not command the premium being assigned here.
There have been similar things going on in the computer games collector market where certain NOS sealed early console games have been hyped to crazy levels (>$1.5m has been passed for a sealed copy of Mario64 FFS!) via insider trading, corrupt valuations etc and that has lead to a totally distorted market. The guitar market maybe has had some element of this, but being a far older and larger marketplace I’d say value was pretty well established for most (non-celebrity owned) items.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
One way values are being manipulated is that larger vintage instrument dealers have warehouses full of stock, and they only trickle out a few items at a time. This enhances the perception of "rarity" and keeps values high. This is certainly true for Gruhn, Norman's, Elderly Instruments just to name a few. Norman's even has the nerve to shoot videos of some of their warehouse excursions.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
This is why we need to push for a socialist revolution -- basically Norm has enough for everyone to have a really cool vintage Jazzmaster and a Strat if you are a coastal elite.