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Local stacked ESL demo night....

Tony L said:
Walker was a remarkably intelligent designer IMO, it is unwise to conclude he hadn’t thought about every aspect.
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camverton said:
Moving on I now own a pair of the 2812s; excellent speakers which make the best of Peter Walker’s iconic design and have the “musical” quality of the 57’s without all the disadvantages. They look and feel much better built than the old 63s
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Tony, it's a good point but even he couldn't have anticipated future materials and computer-aided design facilities. Camverton above has quite a track record of ESLs (even straying to the hybrid dark side) and it's encouraging to read his take on his 2812s compared to to his previous ESLs.

My friend has the 2812s (powered by EAR) and they're excellent though he reckons my bigger 2905s just tip the scales. I've no idea (different venues etc.) The actual differences between the 05s and 12s is, from everything I've read, minimal, but your change from one to t'other makes me wonder.

B.t.w., my 2905s are a lightweight to me, but I did have 133kg each ProAc response Fours beforehand !!!!!
 
Given the recent trend for re-introducing previously 'extinct' hi-fi , how long will it be before Quad relaunches the ESL57. Aside from selling the 'normal' pairs, they could also introduce a premier stacked range with optional metal or wood frames. Dream on....
 
Mike Reed said:
Tony, it's a good point but even he couldn't have anticipated future materials and computer-aided design facilities. Camverton above has quite a track record of ESLs (even straying to the hybrid dark side) and it's encouraging to read his take on his 2812s compared to to his previous ESLs.

My friend has the 2812s (powered by EAR) and they're excellent though he reckons my bigger 2905s just tip the scales. I've no idea (different venues etc.) The actual differences between the 05s and 12s is, from everything I've read, minimal, but your change from one to t'other makes me wonder.

B.t.w., my 2905s are a lightweight to me, but I did have 133kg each ProAc response Fours beforehand !!!!!
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Yes, the jump in sound quality was when they introduced the ‘05s. I didn’t actually own the 2805 although heard them at length quite a few times. I wouldn’t like to speculate on any difference in sound between the 05 and 12, but I would guess the difference is minimal. IIRC the SME chap braced and weighted his 63s and the stiffer construction and weight does pay dividends. It would be interesting to know what changes they made to the outer layers. One way to considerably improve a 63 is to run it without cloth, perforated screen or dust membrane. Not recommended for safety and longevity reasons, but it was interesting to experiment with a pair that were on their way out.
 
I run mine without metal grilles or dust covers, and really thin nylon material replacing the original thick stuff - sound much better, and actually do not attract dust - I just once per year :)
 
chartz said:
No kids, no cats, no cleaning lady — no girlfriend?
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daughters, small dogs, occasional female - my daughters well trained what with all the stuff I have open while repairing/modding and speakers them selves still have socks;

https://flic.kr/p/2kUEvrz (Sorry, on iPad - can’t work out how to get an image tag copy)

Edit to add IMG properly;
51135442223_7a6806e99d_k.jpg


You could choose to poke your finger into the stocking - I guarantee you’d stop doing so at about 5cm in :D
 
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Dowser said:
daughters, small dogs, occasional female - my daughters well trained what with all the stuff I have open while repairing/modding and speakers them selves still have socks;

https://flic.kr/p/2kUEvrz (Sorry, on iPad - can’t work out how to get an image tag copy)

You could choose to poke your finger into the stocking - I guarantee you’d stop doing so at about 5cm in :D
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Nice photo's Richard. Like the idea of the second pair of stand and delivers. I have mine on wooden plinth and the stand and delivers so not quiet as high as you have yours. The red socks looks eh sorry terrible :D but each to their own.
 
tonerei said:
Nice photo's Richard. Like the idea of the second pair of stand and delivers. I have mine on wooden plinth and the stand and delivers so not quiet as high as you have yours. The red socks looks eh sorry terrible :D but each to their own.
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Haha - yep, maybe, but I hated the toned down brown - could have gone black I guess, but I got these socks by ordering sexy tube dresses on Aliexpress...they tend not to come in less loud colours :D I have some in skin colour I maybe try one day...but admit to liking the red...it's not like the speakers hide any way, you have to step around them when you enter to room :)

51136002274_1991c68f02_k.jpg
 
Actually I repaired some 63s without taking out the panels but had to remove the dust cover both sides. Though I put back the grille and sock, that one sounded so much better..

might get them out, cut the other dust covers off, remive all grilles and socks - nothing to lose...
 
I had the ota 57s with Berning otl amps, after what I now own my fave ever combo. Dave Berning uses heavily modded 57 at home.
For me the 57 has a certain magic with valves that can bring a emotional lump to my throat little else comes close to, not perfect but what is. Only sold as my living room shrank and my 22lb Maine Coon took a liking to the grills and I was scared he would fry from over enthusiastic scratching.
 
There is zero circuit difference between 63s and everything that came since. 63 is a Mary Poppins of speakers - practically perfect in every way (except for longevity, but that was the only sacrifice).

Since the passing of Peter Walker, Quad lost the understanding of the design intent. Years ago I asked what a particular capacitor does in the circuit - their answer was that they really didn't know.

Their new speaker ranges add bass panels (not needed, as the original is already perfectly well balanced up to the system's capabilities) or add audiophile tweaks, like resonant stick bracing (PW would be horrified).

This loss of knowledge was another reason for me to switch to Eminent Technology.
 
DimitryZ said:
There is zero circuit difference between 63s and everything that came since. 63 is a Mary Poppins of speakers - practically perfect in every way (except for longevity, but that was the only sacrifice).

Since the passing of Peter Walker, Quad lost the understanding of the design intent. Years ago I asked what a particular capacitor does in the circuit - their answer was that they really didn't know.

Their new speaker ranges add bass panels (not needed, as the original is already perfectly well balanced up to the system's capabilities) or add audiophile tweaks, like resonant stick bracing (PW would be horrified).

This loss of knowledge was another reason for me to switch to Eminent Technology.
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Have you actually heard the latest models? If the significant improvement in sound quality is due to audiophile tweaks then bring ‘em on!

That Peter Walker created two great loudspeakers is undeniable and something we should be grateful for, but that does not mean that they couldn’t be improved.
 
camverton said:
Have you actually heard the latest models? If the significant improvement in sound quality is due to audiophile tweaks then bring ‘em on!

That Peter Walker created two great loudspeakers is undeniable and something we should be grateful for, but that does not mean that they couldn’t be improved.
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I owned the 57s and the 988s.

The idea that everything "can be improved" is an interesting one - but it is false. Some things are already perfect - a remote house by the lake, duck confit recipe, sushi prepared by a master chef. 63 is such a thing - one can very marginally make it better with careful part substitution, but that's about it. Bypassing the electrolytic input cap with a film one is worthwhile, but the stock circuit board makes this hard.

Stuffing more bass panels and adding sticks to the frame is a waste.
 
DimitryZ said:
I owned the 57s and the 988s.

The idea that everything "can be improved" is an interesting one - but it is false. Some things are already perfect - a remote house by the lake, duck confit recipe, sushi prepared by a master chef. 63 is such a thing - one can very marginally make it better with careful part substitution, but that's about it. Bypassing the electrolytic input cap with a film one is worthwhile, but the stock circuit board makes this hard.

Stuffing more bass panels and adding sticks to the frame is a waste.
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So you haven’t owned either an 05 or 12 model. I actually asked if you had heard them; if you had you would know that the 63 and models up until the 2805 were not perfect (albeit very good indeed) insofar as they have been improved. I doubt that they are perfect now (what speaker is?) and maybe they will be improved, but your statement that the changes are a waste is erm, how can I put this politely, curious!

BTW I did consider the Eminent speaker but at the time they were represented in the UK by one person and getting a dem at home involved a fee although this would have been taken off the price if I had bought a pair. They did look promising but impossible to judge them without a decent listen.
 
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