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Sub or not...

mansr said:
My experience is the exact opposite.
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As soon as you DSP any signal you alter the data, hence changing the sound, especially if the signal was in the analogue domain. DSP should be the very last choice in any system. It's much better to acoustically treat the room rather than trying to do it digitally. The only time I found DSP works OK was in an in-car audio system where you are never going to get as good a sound as in your home system.
 
I tried a DSP in software on my windows system some years ago. It changed the sound and took the life out completely.

I currently use the single channel PEQ on my subwoofer to tame the biggest room mode at 42Hz, I think I dropped that by about 4 or 5dB.

As noted in this thread earlier, integration is not simple, you need to be able to measure properly and it requires ability to tune the phase and volume. Tweak one parameter and it could mean tweaking something else.
 
G T Audio said:
As soon as you DSP any signal you alter the data, hence changing the sound
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Yes, the sound is changed to counteract room effects, thus making it more accurate. There is no sense in trying to argue otherwise.

G T Audio said:
DSP should be the very last choice in any system. It's much better to acoustically treat the room rather than trying to do it digitally.
Click to expand...
DSP can't fix a truly awful room. However, it will always be an improvement. For the best sound, use room treatments _and_ DSP.
 
mansr said:
Yes, the sound is changed to counteract room effects, thus making it more accurate. There is no sense in trying to argue otherwise.


DSP can't fix a truly awful room. However, it will always be an improvement. For the best sound, use room treatments _and_ DSP.
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Agreed, i use a miniDSP SHD Studio as a digital crossover, dirac, streamer and preamp. Also have a reasonable amount of treatment in the room. Very happy with the results, measurements show it going smooth down to 30hz where i let it drop off to not torment the neighbors too much. Have no need for lower anyway since this is purely for music.
 
I have a single BK200 down firing sub partnered to Kudos Cardea C20's. No DSP here. The infamous London Grammar track has a three note repeated bass run of 32,38and 48hz fundamentals. My basic android spectrum analyzer app just makes out a second harmonic of 16Hz. If I play the test tracks I downloaded from the Focal website the trace is pretty good with no serious peaks or dips 20Hz to 10khz then a gradual drop off thereafter. I have the sub set to come in at the lowest frequency setting with just enough gain that it gives the lowest notes on a recording equal weight to the octave above. Works really well on tracks like the London Grammar ones, classic organ, kick drum etc.
 
flatpopely said:
I’ve never heard a hi fi system where the sub integrated seamlessly. Always preferred no sub.
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I'm still messing around with cabling so my speaker positions aren't finalised - but I'm running twin 12" sealed subs, and they integrate pretty well. I'm doing as much as I can to avoid using DIRAC, but my crap room environment is going to demand my surrender eventually.
 
flatpopely said:
I’ve never heard a hi fi system where the sub integrated seamlessly. Always preferred no sub.
Click to expand...
Loudspeaker sound in a room is inevitably full of compromises. Some of us think the benefits of using a sub outweigh the drawbacks.
 
There are definitely tracks where a sub makes a case for itself.
I'm thinking the Jeff Beck version of Goodbye Pork Pie Hat. It sounds very dramatic and the full underpinning bass completes the experience.
There are a few others.
Otherwise, like ryder, a sub could become loft furniture.
 
I have an REL supporting my Magneplanar LRS speakers. The REL has the speed and depth to integrate well. It did take a bit of learning and work but very happy with the results.
 
Del monaco said:
I have an REL supporting my Magneplanar LRS speakers. The REL has the speed and depth to integrate well. It did take a bit of learning and work but very happy with the results.
Click to expand...

I sincerely hope REL have drastically improved their product since the mid 1990s/mid 2000s, as they were pretty poor back then...
 
I got a REL sub last year. I'd been using ProAc stand mounted speakers for about 8 years and I've thoroughly enjoyed the addition of the sub. Took a while to get it just right but definitely worth it for me.
 
I have a pair of lower priced HSU 12" subs backing up my ETs in parallel below 45Hz - no crossover on the ETs.

It wasn't difficult to integrate. I use mine with foam plugs in the ports to better match ETs sealed woofers.
 
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