stairpost
Average at best.
I'd imagine that paedophiles are like most criminals, the more they get away with it the more they'll do it. It seems these DJs and stars of the 60s & 70s were so valuable and revered that the people in power let them get away with it.
I'd like to hope things have changed.
As for Dylan, I'm not a fan but for his sake and the sake of the alleged victim I hope it turns out to be false. One less abused child has got to be a good thing, any false accusation can be dealt with for what it is. The whole situation is beyond horrendous, the idea of him having committed this crime or having been falsely accused is very unpleasant.
I'd like to hope things have changed.
As for Dylan, I'm not a fan but for his sake and the sake of the alleged victim I hope it turns out to be false. One less abused child has got to be a good thing, any false accusation can be dealt with for what it is. The whole situation is beyond horrendous, the idea of him having committed this crime or having been falsely accused is very unpleasant.
Lee T
pfm Member
Laws are mainly driven by changing attitudes within society & you can go back to the 1800's for changing attitudes towards the abuse of children.
There were no laws in place against slavery back then & laws against slavery emerged through changing attitudes but laws were in place against the abuse of children & paedophilia in the 1960's when Dylan allegedly carried out this act so society had already deemed this unacceptable so this argument that we "didn't know any better" does not hold up.
mansr
Objectionist
His well-documented whereabouts during the time of the alleged offence suggest he probably didn't do it.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
Part of the reason I'm a little wound here is watching a false accusation ruin a life in slow motion from close quarters. A good friend was accused by a girl exactly that age of molesting her in a private tuition session after school. At the start of the 4 weeks that it took for the school to advise social services, who involved the police ofc, he was (properly) suspended from duties. From that moment, some, happy to stir the rumour mill named him Paedophile, found him guilty, and shouted for him to be dismissed. He broke down. A kind man and fantastic teacher in his late 50's his career ended by those who, even when the girl admitted to the police that it was totally untrue and he was cleared and reinstated, never trusted him again. He retired. I still see him occasionally, but he's a very changed man.
The family of the girl removed her from the School and we dusted down and moved on. He never did.
That certainly affected me. I went home to remember the number of times I had put a comforting arm around an upset child, and mull over what might have been had those moments I thought were kindnesses been misconstrued by someone. When the Social Services started their regular contact with boarding Schools in the early 90's everything changed. All staff were sent off on training courses. They were actually very very good. Counselling days, new rules to learn, signs to watch for. I learnt a lot but do recall being told never, ever, to touch a child.
Earlier that year, I, as Housemaster, had been given the job of telling a 13 year old boy in my care that his father had been killed in a road accident, sort him out and send him home. Predictably, he'd cried and I, for a few minutes of that time, sat with an arm round his shoulder and let him get on with his grief. I told this story to the lady from the SS and she said, 'never do that again'. She set out the alternatives (it would apparently be fine if I were female, so go find one) but to this day I'd say what I said then. I can't promise to do that. Sometimes the emotion of the moment is more than the rule of law.
Anyway, having got that off my chest, I think my point is to those who don't understand how a simple accusation can ruin a life, and in particular, how rumour burns like dry paper in the wind. Does the risk of prosecution for false accusation prevent genuine cases from coming forward? I don't see why.
The family of the girl removed her from the School and we dusted down and moved on. He never did.
That certainly affected me. I went home to remember the number of times I had put a comforting arm around an upset child, and mull over what might have been had those moments I thought were kindnesses been misconstrued by someone. When the Social Services started their regular contact with boarding Schools in the early 90's everything changed. All staff were sent off on training courses. They were actually very very good. Counselling days, new rules to learn, signs to watch for. I learnt a lot but do recall being told never, ever, to touch a child.
Earlier that year, I, as Housemaster, had been given the job of telling a 13 year old boy in my care that his father had been killed in a road accident, sort him out and send him home. Predictably, he'd cried and I, for a few minutes of that time, sat with an arm round his shoulder and let him get on with his grief. I told this story to the lady from the SS and she said, 'never do that again'. She set out the alternatives (it would apparently be fine if I were female, so go find one) but to this day I'd say what I said then. I can't promise to do that. Sometimes the emotion of the moment is more than the rule of law.
Anyway, having got that off my chest, I think my point is to those who don't understand how a simple accusation can ruin a life, and in particular, how rumour burns like dry paper in the wind. Does the risk of prosecution for false accusation prevent genuine cases from coming forward? I don't see why.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Agreed. I have no idea as to the truth of the allegations - how could I? - I've not made any comments towards Mr Zimmerman.
I am uncomfortable (though not foaming at the mouth) with some of the attitudes displayed by posters in this thread. I've been careful not to comment on any particular poster but I feel obliged to say something.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
At the same time as laws against paedophilia, we also had laws against homosexuality. So society got one of them wrong, didn't it? The sixties were a period of experimentation and liberation, and what society deemed unacceptable was being challenged. I maintain, we need to view this sort of thing through the prism of the contemporary social context. I entirely agree that 12 is far too young an age, and that any relationship between an adult and an underage child is going to be at least to some degree exploitative and therefore somewhat abusive, but there are many anecdotal stories of young teenagers passing for much older, so I'd try not be too hasty to leap to absolute judgement on an 18-20 year-old musician/DJ consorting with somebody they believed to be 15-16.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this thread but I do appreciate you taking the time to explain the context of where you're coming from. The safeguarding of children in schools is certainly complex and emotive - and not something I feel remotely qualified to comment on.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
@Rockmeister fair post. It’s very difficult for some not to voice an opinion on this topic, even when one points out the full facts are not, and may never be fully known.
I'm pretty sure the lawyer in question will have looked into this before taking the case, a few posts have highlighted this. I am not saying Dylan is guilty but the idea that basic facts relating to which country he was in have been overlooked before proceeding is not credible.
mansr
Objectionist
It's not hard to find a lawyer willing to file an utterly frivolous suit, perhaps hoping for a quick settlement. Happens all the time. Take a look at one Steven Scott Biss, for example.
mansr
Objectionist
What, like Bob Dylan being on tour in England in May 1965?
To be honest one side of that debate has only come about due to some of the replies on the thread. It's split into two now, whether or not Dylan did it or not isn't relevant to some of the scapegoating going on about 'some kids are up for it so it's not abuse'.
It will not even get to court if that is the case. Seems to have gone beyond that.
Exactly, whether he did it or not is almost irrelevant in the light of some of the abhorrent comments being made.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
I can't find that anywhere. I can see 'some kids are up for it' and i can see suggestions that the man may be innocent but can't find a single post suggesting your quote. Unless ofc you are talking about over 16's in which case I can agree, but then it isn't abuse because it's legal. Can you point me to the post you mention? Ta.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
mansr
Objectionist
It has been filed. That is the first step. The merit of the case will be determined through the discovery process, if it even gets that far.