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Dylan accused of sexually abusing a 12-year-old

Well given it was illegal then and illegal now, I think we can assume it was generally viewed the same way. Unlike say homosexuality which was once illegal but is now mostly accepted and not illegal.

The idea that f-cking pre pubescent kids in the 60s was thought of as ok is bullshit. Ask a parent.

Agreed. I’ve already posted the link to the relevant legislation.
 
Truth is no one on PFM knows. People are capable of anything, I always get suspicious of the morally righteous, here's an example why; "A new book, Bleeding for Jesus, tells the story of John Smyth QC, the moral crusader who fought legal battles for “Christian values” in Britain’s courts while allegedly mercilessly abusing young men at his Hampshire home, and the Iwerne Trust, which organised the “Bash camps” that were his hunting ground and which turned a blind eye to his activities'.
I hope Dylan didn't do anything to this kid.
 
He was apparently on a UK tour at the time.... yet we are on to page 12?

I find the puritanical, back to Victorian values, holier than thou hand wringing most worrying personally!

They'll be covering the legs of pianos and sending someone from the council to find out why you weren't at church this morning next!

No wonder music has died a death now that the mandated rider includes kale and quinoa bio yogurt, a bottle of designer spring water then an early night!

One of your finest moments.
On a music thread I might nearly agree with you but here where we are discussing the possible abuse of a 12 year old girl the comments are just so crass.

I guess none of us want this to be true but if it is there is no excuse or justification. I presume we can at least agree on that?

.sjb
 
Wherever I learned about sex, I am absolutely sure that I was not taught that: "girls were taught that men needed sex, and giving them what they wanted was the right thing to do if you wanted to be liked".
 
Rocky, that's no mitigation. A child is deemed under the age of consent, she could offer a million pounds for sex with an adult, it's still the adults responsibility to say no. There is no excuse, and no mitigation short of them providing an apparently legal id.

Even thinking such mitigation may exist is f-,cked up.
 
One of your finest moments.
On a music thread I might nearly agree with you but here where we are discussing the possible abuse of a 12 year old girl the comments are just so crass.

I guess none of us want this to be true but if it is there is no excuse or justification. I presume we can at least agree on that?

.sjb

I rest my case! Wooooossshhh!

Under what name do you write in the grauniad? :D Have you built the gallows yet for the obviously guilty Mr Dylan, who was out of the USA at the time? Are you doing penance to cleanse your soul of the deadly sin of once having actually liked the music of this monster who's almost certainly completely innocent?

and while you read this probably someone died of malnutrition in Africa and someone was shot in Afghanistan. Not 55 years ago.... and VERY likely to be true. Where's the hand wringing now? No trendy "hash tag" campaign for people who "merely" starve to death or get shot I guess... never mind £millions in damages, more $millions for lawyers and god knows how much twaddle from the journalists!
 
My posts are trying to open closed minds apparently already clutching the noose. I pose alternatives to the image of the virginal sugar sweet child as an exercise in fairness. Look at your own wording. You repeatedly refer to abuse. I point out that females are as capable of a deliberate act as any man. I have NOT condoned under age sex, in fact twice expressed my concerns. What I have said is that men can be led by sexual desire and, putting 2+2, it happened quite regularly. If it has happened to an under age child against her/his will, that’s rape and if proven, the abuser goes to jail. If the child in question planned the act for gain, then it’s wrong on both sides. In an ideal world, yes, all adults should be responsible and honest, and yes no child should, until the age of consent be able to go into a sexual relationship without getting noticed and advised, but that’s not how we are. We are flawed. You are, I am and a lot of kids certainly are so, this stuff happens. Im going to sum my position then stop.
This is not Utopia. No ‘we should’ argument makes any sense. We are flawed. We are Sheep.
The law tries to protect the more vulnerable sheep but within that flock are those who don’t want to do the good stuff. And 100 more character flaws and on and on. Maybe, Dylan’s accuser is one such. Maybe not, but the possibility needs to be examined in court.
Oh dear. We are sheep, we are led by our dicks, she was asking for it, we have no control, it is her fault, look at her - the way she is dressed - clearly begging for it, what is a man supposed to do, presented with such provocation.

Well, rocky?
 
Under what name do you write in the grauniad? :D Have you built the gallows yet for the obviously guilty Mr Dylan, who was out of the USA at the time? Are you doing penance to cleanse your soul of the deadly sin of once having actually liked the music of this monster who's almost certainly completely innocent?

Do hope you have presented all your evidence of this man's innocence to the relevant US authorities ... seems like you have some very compelling stuff to hand over to them.

Have you had a badge and T shirt designed yet - perhaps a flyer to take round door to door?
 
Well given it was illegal then and illegal now, I think we can assume it was generally viewed the same way. Unlike say homosexuality which was once illegal but is now mostly accepted and not illegal.

The idea that f-cking pre pubescent kids in the 60s was thought of as ok is bullshit. Ask a parent.

I was a teenager at the time in question, the commonly used term for underage girls was 'jailbait' ...
Grown men who abused children were regarded pretty much the same as they are now - scum of the scummiest order of scum.

That said, there were plenty of stories and rumours doing the rounds at the time and into the '70s of regular abuse by pop stars of underage girls and a weird almost cult like acceptance as if it went with the turf (blame Jerry Lee Lewis for that ....) and the line 'girls throw themselves at them' was bandied about a lot ..... particularly by a scurrilous press.

I don't recall any actual prosecutions though until the Gary Glitter case but I'm sure there will be some ....
 
Can't say this LP cover really helped matters re. the rumours....

medium.po1sfj15c8cl.jpg


For information: the translucent 'Deluxe' banner was not on the original release and the model was by all accounts 11 years old.
 
I think Rockmeister's posts try to analyse, dispassionately and objectively, the "zeitgeist" of 1965. What really horrifies me are posts that lay down moral law, with emotional and self-righteous indignation in 2021 UK, as if this were the only and universal law and the only morally defensible position possible. All other angles and nuances being condemned as heresy. I would not be surprised if these same people would also pass judgment on "what kind" of sex people have, not just what is legal or illegal, but what is morally "appropriate." Is adultery to be condemned, for instance? Oral or anal sex? Bondage and S/M? Group sex? What is "appropriate" and what isn't? Who are the judges?
 
Another point, what about cultures with different standards? In which, for instance, people are betrothed when they are 10 or 12 and married a couple of years later. Are they also "wrong"? Were the Ancient Greeks "wrong" regarding homosexuality?
 
I think Rockmeister's posts try to analyse, dispassionately and objectively, the "zeitgeist" of 1965. What really horrifies me are posts that lay down moral law, with emotional and self-righteous indignation in 2021 UK, as if this were the only and universal law and the only morally defensible position possible. All other angles and nuances being condemned as heresy. I would not be surprised if these same people would also pass judgment on "what kind" of sex people have, not just what is legal or illegal, but what is morally "appropriate." Is adultery to be condemned, for instance? Oral or anal sex? Bondage and S/M? Group sex? What is "appropriate" and what isn't? Who are the judges?

Naaa, I think it's just sex with kids we're talking about here.
 
Oh dear. We are sheep, we are led by our dicks, she was asking for it, we have no control, it is her fault, look at her - the way she is dressed - clearly begging for it, what is a man supposed to do, presented with such provocation.

Well, rocky?
Finally you got it! Good description of what? 25% of western males, maybe a bit higher. I know a fair few men exactly like that.The second bit, from “it’s her fault, to …provocation”, you just made up. Careful now.
 
Can't say this LP cover really helped matters re. the rumours....

medium.po1sfj15c8cl.jpg


For information: the translucent 'Deluxe' banner was not on the original release and the model was by all accounts 11 years old.

There is/are some explanations of a non-sexual nature re. this cover (as I’m sure you know) but it was fairly shocking to many at the time, including me, and on the whole a bit of a step too far for an album cover - May have done OK in an art gallery though, them folks is allowed to see all sorts of stuff.
 
Just as we can only judge the Victorian slave traders within the context of the mores of their time, so we have to view the prevailing attitudes in the 1960s. We can say, from our current perspective, that they were wrong, and we won’t condone these actions now, but what do we do now that will be condemned in 2 generations’ time? Driving cars with one occupant, flying for frivolous purposes like leisure?
Laws were in place in the 60's to deal with underage sex & paedophilia so time is no excuse for taking advantage of vulnerable children. It is precisely why we have laws for historical abuse.
 
I would say I'm 98% sure these allegations are total BS. Let's see what happens.

Foaming at the mouth like Harry Enfield's Mr Self Righteous going "Oi, Dylan, NO!" before anything's even gone to court seems a little premature.

It's never right for an adult to sexually exploit a 12 year old, but the common public reaction to start boiling over at the sheer mention of such activity is counter productive to tackling this kind of behaviour and reducing the harm it causes.
 


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