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Flexible low cost speaker cable for Classic Naim Nait 2?

Craig B said:
Ah, 'QED', my brain registered 'Chord Co.' for some reason.

Regardless, that isn't the twisted pair configuration that Naim were on about back in the days before NACA4. Their 'SPEAKER CABLES, A SPECIAL NOTE' missive contained the recipes (there were two initially, later changed to one with RS type 357-946 4mm 56/0.3 being recommended within an early Naim manual).
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I thought the old classic Naim amplifiers were 'always' sold along with their own NAC Ax cables seeing as that was part of the design of the amp? So this is a surprise - just use 'normal stranded cable' wow - do others here concur?

That sort of rules out solid core cable in any way shape or form I guess (i.e. DNM - I also have some old solid core AudioQuest speaker cables somewhere).

I will add that it would also be nice to use the same speaker cable for normal regular amps ensuring the best sound (within reason - no throttling of the sound at least!).
 
beammeup said:
I thought the old classic Naim amplifiers were 'always' sold along with their own NAC Ax cables
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My bolt down amps were sold without Ax cables because they hadn't been "invented" or "borrowed from the outdoor LV lighting systems" at that stage.

They were supplied with the instructions in post 19 above.
 
I slightly prefer current Talk Cable 3
https://www.analogueseduction.net/un-terminated/TAL3UT[2].html
to VAN DAMME BLACK SERIES TOUR GRADE SPEAKER CABLE 2.5mm
and also to old Cable Talk 3.1 - the one with similar construction to Linn K20 and to this current Talk Cables Talk 6
https://www.analogueseduction.net/u...aker-cable-unterminated-priced-per-metre.html

Van Damme is the most flexible of all mentioned. Talk Cable 3 is not too bad in that respect.

I'm sure you would be completely fine with QED or Van Damme Hi-Fi series, that are even more flexible.
 
beammeup said:
I thought the old classic Naim amplifiers were 'always' sold along with their own NAC Ax cables seeing as that was part of the design of the amp? So this is a surprise - just use 'normal stranded cable' wow - do others here concur?

That sort of rules out solid core cable in any way shape or form I guess (i.e. DNM - I also have some old solid core AudioQuest speaker cables somewhere).

I will add that it would also be nice to use the same speaker cable for normal regular amps ensuring the best sound (within reason - no throttling of the sound at least!).
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I used RS cable and QED cable for years with my chrome bumper amps perfectly happily.
 
beammeup said:
I thought the old classic Naim amplifiers were 'always' sold along with their own NAC Ax cables seeing as that was part of the design of the amp? So this is a surprise - just use 'normal stranded cable' wow - do others here concur?

That sort of rules out solid core cable in any way shape or form I guess (i.e. DNM - I also have some old solid core AudioQuest speaker cables somewhere).

I will add that it would also be nice to use the same speaker cable for normal regular amps ensuring the best sound (within reason - no throttling of the sound at least!).
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NACA4 didn't come along until 1981, so the roll your own preceeded that (although it was mentioned as an alternative to the A4 within the black cover full line manual).

When they suggested 'normal stranded cable' I took this to mean 'not Litz-type induction heater wire'. Use of solid core was yet to become a thing.
 
Craig B said:
NACA4 didn't come along until 1981, so the roll your own preceeded that (although it was mentioned as an alternative to the A4 within the black cover full line manual).

When they suggested 'normal stranded cable' I took this to mean 'not Litz-type induction heater wire'. Use of solid core was yet to become a thing.
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OK makes sense - so solid core is still a contender - I am contacting Denis now. The cable I choose should also be good enough not to throttle the sound of other amps I may choose to use too.
 
beammeup said:
OK makes sense - so solid core is still a contender - I am contacting Denis now. The cable I choose should also be good enough not to throttle the sound of other amps I may choose to use too.
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Sure, why not. In the meantime, I'll run the DNM LCR values through Excel here and let you know what minimum and maximum lengths match up with those of Naim's recommended minima and maxima for A4/A5.


EDIT: Turns out the published LCR values for DNM are quite close. With rounding off, it comes to 3m minimum, 19m maximum to match Naim's implied recommended minimum inductance and maximum capacitance. These for both DNM 'Solid Core Precision 2' and 'Solid Core Resolution'.
 
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Another vote for the Witch Hat N2 (£150, 2 x 5m) or the WH Phantom (£400). I have the later with my CB Nait 2 and it is rather special.
Not silly prices.
 
Not compared to what you can pay Martyn. The Phantoms are rather good. The N2 is equivalent to NACA 5 but a lot cheaper and flexible.

5m is a fairly long run of cable. £280 if you just need the usual 3.5m.

AND, if I remember correctly, you have 30 days to return them if you are not happy.
 
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As I have a scientific / engineering background.
I am very suspicious about cables.
Especially cryogenically treated ones.
Russ Andrews talks complete rubbish.
I challenged him with results I obtained after measuring cables that had been immersed in liquid nitrogen.
Minus 196 Deg. C.
He didn't reply.
I admit there are minor audible differences with some cables.
Most are hyped by the manufacturers and suppliers.
If people want to ' believe' that's up to them.
I like Peter Walker's take on speaker cables.
The main criterion is that they're long enough to fit between the amplifier and the speakers.
 
No-one has mentioned it yet so I'll say it: plain old Van Damme blue, 2.5sq.mm. excellent value at off the reel prices, and very flexible. Buy 4 black and 4 red Deltron banana plugs, solder them on, and you'll be all set for £40-45. Good for much higher power than the Nait will ever deliver, too.

(I have a set I use with my Nait2, and anything else I need to use banana plug speaker cable with - e.g. works well with my Quad 306 for example. also - havingusedsuch for >15yrs with the Nait2 into all sorts fo things from small stand-mounts via Quad 57s and 989s to a variety of Impulse horns- I can say from experience it's a consonant, and electrically very safe match)
 
Craig B said:
Sure, why not. In the meantime, I'll run the DNM LCR values through Excel here and let you know what minimum and maximum lengths match up with those of Naim's recommended minima and maxima for A4/A5.


EDIT: Turns out the published LCR values for DNM are quite close. With rounding off, it comes to 3m minimum, 19m maximum to match Naim's implied recommended minimum inductance and maximum capacitance. These for both DNM 'Solid Core Precision 2' and 'Solid Core Resolution'.
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Thanks for doing the calculations here. DNM may be the kiddie for me. Now DNM isn't very 'thick' cable - does that actually affect systems in a negative way over 5 metres? I'm hoping DNM as a speaker cable will work well with other amps too: Yamaha A-S801 and Croft pre/power for example - maybe at a push I might want to try an NVA power amps because I have their NVA pre-amp.

Or am I asking too much seeking a speaker cable that can work with all amps like this?
 
beammeup said:
Thanks for doing the calculations here. DNM may be the kiddie for me. Now DNM isn't very 'thick' cable - does that actually affect systems in a negative way over 5 metres? I'm hoping DNM as a speaker cable will work well with other amps too: Yamaha A-S801 and Croft pre/power for example - maybe at a push I might want to try an NVA power amps because I have their NVA pre-amp.

Or am I asking too much seeking a speaker cable that can work with all amps like this?
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Actually, I am pleasantly surprised - the new DNM Stereo Solid Core Precision 2 speaker cable (@Craig B - thanks for the link), at quoted 0.03ohms/metre, will give a total resistance for a 5m long pair (10m round-trip) of 0.3ohms.

For a speaker that is close to 8ohms across the range (esp at the bass end, that's (0.03/8)*100 = 3.75% of the speaker impedance - meets Quad's old but really useful criterion* in reckoning such things; and even if the speakers you have in mind drop to 4ohm somewhere at the LF end due to porting or similar, 7% really ain't so bad. If it suits your purpose and the price is right, at 5m runs max - yes, try it. The 'DNM Stereo Solid Core Resolution' is better yet (returns about half those percentages**)

*here's a previous illustration of the effects of grossly-undersized speaker cable:

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/spkrcable.html



** I must also point-out, that any 2.5sq.mm cable like the van damme I suggested above - or any of equiv cross-sectional area - the impedance, and resultant values would be just 1/4 that of the 'best' DNM, the Stereo Solid Core Resolution.

Such things may figure into perception of cost vs.value / fitness etc!
 
martin clark said:
Actually, I am pleasantly surprised - the new DNM Stereo Solid Core Precision 2 speaker cable (@Craig B - thanks for the link), at quoted 0.03ohms/metre, will give a total resistance for a 5m long pair (10m round-trip) of 0.3ohms.

For a speaker that is close to 8ohms across the range (esp at the bass end, that's (0.03/8)*100 = 3.75% of the speaker impedance - meets Quad's old but really useful criterion* in reckoning such things; and even if the speakers you have in mind drop to 4ohm somewhere at the LF end due to porting or similar, 7% really ain't so bad. If it suits your purpose and the price is right, at 5m runs max - yes, try it. The 'DNM Stereo Solid Core Resolution' is better yet (returns about half those percentages)

*here's a previous illustration of the effects of grossly-undersized speaker cable:

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/spkrcable.html
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You are welcome Martin, and thank you for the link that you provided.

I've been learning new things on here every day, often in no small part due to your highly informative posts.
 
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Pretty much any cable will work on a Nait2. There, I said it. Just buy some half-decent copper like Martin suggested. I've tested and repaired hundreds of these amps and to be honest, they're far more tolerant with stability than their big brothers. Just don't short the ends out.

Footnote: The Nait2 and NAP90/NAIT3 share the same amp circuit. The Nait2 is very compactly laid out and this aids thermal stability. The 90/N3 had a tendency to run away with itself, although this was alleviated somewhat in later models.
 
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