advertisement


Naim Hicap DR vs Dual Teddycap

R

ryder

pfm Member
This time it is on a Naim NAC 202 and NAP 200 as I've recently moved the system to a much smaller room. The 282 and 250 DR are still in their boxes but think I'll post this one.

I'll make this short and to the point. Same impressions with my previous comparisons but the new room surely brought the largest difference. I currently have a slight bass boom in the room and guess what? The Dual Teddycap did better than the Hicap DR here as there is less bass (or midbass). Slightly clearer bass lines with the Teddycap. The bass sounded a little untidy with the Hicap DR as it pumps out more in the midbass region. There is a bit of bass resonance with the Hicap DR.

Other than the bass, as usual the Teddycap sounded slightly smoother and more civilized than the Hicap DR. Leading edge transients are smoother and softer with the Teddycap. Hicap DR sounded a bit livelier and more exciting.

In my mind, the Teddycap made the Naim sound closer to a Rega. Just an analogy Slightly less impact in the bass and an overall smoother and more relaxing sound.

No comment on which sounds better but I guess both are doing pretty well. Most importantly they don't sound the same which is a good thing.
 
Thank you for the comparison. I share your views as I've compared TeddyCap with HCDR on SuperNait2. I replaced HCDR with TeddyCap in my system a year ago. HCDR sounds slightly faster and more lively but I couldn't get over the fact that with TeddyCap I could simply hear more. Deeper hitting bass, more details but still smooth and non intrusive, more relaxed sound. HCDR sounds slightly faster because of the usual Naim sound signature with very forward sound and slight boost in midbass. Somehow TeddyCap sounds more balanced overall. But it's purely a matter of taste, both are good additions.
 
Thanks for the post which I surely agree. A good summary on both Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap which I shall not repeat here.

I am not sure how the Teddycap and Hicap DR will compare when they are connected to the 282/250DR later as the new room will surely have a significant bearing on the sound. In the previous larger room, the Hicap DR was preferred over the Dual Teddycap. Nevertheless, as you have aptly described it, it is purely a matter of taste, nothing else.
 
By the way, a note on your "deeper hitting bass" remark of the Teddycap. In my view, the bass may go slightly lower with the Teddycap but the midbass boost with the Hicap DR gives music the groovy punch and the impression of more bass. However, I think the experience or impression will also be largely dependent on the room and the speakers. In smaller or problematic rooms, the added midbass may turn out to be undesirable. Partly due to room issues. The Teddycap plays cleaner in the bass.
 
If you have 282 try combination of two PS units.I use DTC napsc and hicap at the same time.One tddy cap to 82 ,first pc.Other teddy to prefix,and hicap to 82 2nd ps.
Prefix is much better with TC,more refined and precise with more dtetailed sound...in one world better.
82 with two teddy cap detailed,but somehow cold and sterile.Adition of naim hicap get preamp a litle bit warmer sound with some mid bass peak wich added rythm and overall atractive sound.
I use naim napsc.
I think that maybe acting as a 3 ps unit is a litle bit to much for teddy...or I like complicate things :)
If somebody have both ps units,try all combinations.It can be fun! I was prepared to sell hicap,but when I put when I try it on hicap2 place I can resist been on a rollercoster fun that happens.
...maybe I should say it is olive hicap.
 
L&N republican said:
If you have 282 try combination of two PS units.I use DTC napsc and hicap at the same time.One tddy cap to 82 ,first pc.Other teddy to prefix,and hicap to 82 2nd ps.
Prefix is much better with TC,more refined and precise with more dtetailed sound...in one world better.
82 with two teddy cap detailed,but somehow cold and sterile.Adition of naim hicap get preamp a litle bit warmer sound with some mid bass peak wich added rythm and overall atractive sound.
I use naim napsc.
I think that maybe acting as a 3 ps unit is a litle bit to much for teddy...or I like complicate things :)
If somebody have both ps units,try all combinations.It can be fun! I was prepared to sell hicap,but when I put when I try it on hicap2 place I can resist been on a rollercoster fun that happens.
...maybe I should say it is olive hicap.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post. I've tried various combinations of the Dual Teddycap and Hicap DR on the 282 previously and shared the same experience on having the 282 connected with 2 outputs of the Dual Teddycap. I think the sterility is contributed by the overly-controlled sound when both outputs of the Dual Teddycap are connected to the 282. With the additional (or excessive) control to the sound, the sound is a little constrained, forced and less airy or projected. With one output connected, music seems to breathe a little better sounding airier and more natural. I did combine one output from the Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap and the result was ok but I eventually reverted to just one output in the end.

The new room may return a different outcome and I'll just have to try the various configurations myself in due time to find out. Cheers.
 
ryder said:
By the way, a note on your "deeper hitting bass" remark of the Teddycap. In my view, the bass may go slightly lower with the Teddycap but the midbass boost with the Hicap DR gives music the groovy punch and the impression of more bass. However, I think the experience or impression will also be largely dependent on the room and the speakers. In smaller or problematic rooms, the added midbass may turn out to be undesirable. Partly due to room issues. The Teddycap plays cleaner in the bass.
Click to expand...

Yes, Naim seems to have more bass because of the midbass bump but it doesn't reach as deep as with TeddyCap. So TeddyCap has slightly tighter bass with better extension. Usually tighter means faster but in this case, HCDR sounds slightly faster because of the forward sound signature of Naim, which is implemented throughout their equipment. Also it's easier to sound fast when the bass doesn't extend as deep. Even Naim DC1 digital cable has this same sound signature when compared to other digital cables. It's funny though that HCDR seems to reach further in the top end but I've concluded that it must be because of the more relaxed and smoother nature of TeddyCap. HCDR sounds more raw and so the top end also sounds ever so slightly harsher/brighter than with TeddyCap. Some recordings were too much with HCDR but with TeddyCap I've never encountered recording which would sound too harsh or give me listening fatigue.
 
Patu said:
Yes, Naim seems to have more bass because of the midbass bump but it doesn't reach as deep as with TeddyCap. So TeddyCap has slightly tighter bass with better extension. Usually tighter means faster but in this case, HCDR sounds slightly faster because of the forward sound signature of Naim, which is implemented throughout their equipment. Also it's easier to sound fast when the bass doesn't extend as deep. Even Naim DC1 digital cable has this same sound signature when compared to other digital cables. It's funny though that HCDR seems to reach further in the top end but I've concluded that it must be because of the more relaxed and smoother nature of TeddyCap. HCDR sounds more raw and so the top end also sounds ever so slightly harsher/brighter than with TeddyCap. Some recordings were too much with HCDR but with TeddyCap I've never encountered recording which would sound too harsh or give me listening fatigue.
Click to expand...

Right, I have just swapped over to the Hicap DR after listening to the Dual Teddycap for few days. I listened to the same track for about an hour or 2 and then switched over to the Teddycap again.

Long story short, same impressions and my preference is now toward the Teddycap for the same reasons that you mentioned. In the new room with the 202/200.

I previously did an extensive comparison between the Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap on the 282/250DR and ended up preferring the Hicap DR. It would be interesting to perform the comparison in the new room this time but it will take a while before i could get the amps into system.

More notes on the Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap. I am not sure if Naim has tailored the sound of the Hicap DR to sound the way that they want but it is true that listening fatigue is higher with the Hicap DR. I am not sure what contributes to this higher listening fatigue and the Teddycap sounding smoother and more analogue. I am guessing that some of the frequencies are pushed out more while some frequencies pulled back a little though I don't know how they managed to do that with a power supply. The perceived added detail of the Dual Teddycap, I think it is the sound of instruments in the background particularly electric guitars sounding a little airier with more presence as the sound flows out more from the speakers. With the Hicap DR electric guitars in the background sound slightly smaller with less air.

In summary, we share the same impressions although you are on the Supernait 2 while I'm on the 202/200. The keywords for the Teddycap are smooth, more analogue and the Hicap DR raw and forward. Both sound fine to me. If i didn't compare i could live with either. Nevertheless, in the current system (202/200) and room, the Teddycap is preferred over the Hicap DR for its smoother but still lively character. I recall the Teddycap sounding dull on the 282/250DR in the previous setup but we'll see..
 
I had a similar experience as you with the Teddy dual cap. On a CDX I also found the Teddy XPS was a better PS than the Naim XPS for similar reasons, it tamed the excesses of the firey CDX. Though the XPS DR was marginally better than the TP on the more refined CDS3, it gave just a little more depth and swing to the music, and the CDS3 needed a bit of that.

TP makes some fine gear, and at decent prices. What I love too is that they are smaller and need no servicing.
 
Great post, I think the difference between these two power supplies couldn't be documented much better. There it is :)

I also use Teddy XPS on my Naim DAC and compared it against XP5XS but I haven't heard XPSDR or 555-level power supplies from Naim. Differences between TXPS and XP5XS were similar than TeddyCap vs HCDR but in this case, TXPS was easily the better one. XP5XS added so much middle bass that it drove the sound signature off balance in my room.
 
An update. I have readjusted the position of the speakers by pulling them out of the room by two inches and reduced the toe-in as I find the sound to be a little "off" and vocals sounding too forward which is hurting the ears. After the adjustment the sound quality was much better and more balanced but the sound became dull. I then switched from the Dual Teddycap to the Hicap DR (again), and now find the Hicap to sound better than the Dual Teddycap. The listening fatigue and uncontrolled or excessive bass of the Hicap DR with the new speaker placement have been eliminated. The raw delivery of the Naim Hicap makes music more exciting to listen than the Dual Teddycap which now appear to sound too smooth.

This exercise does not only describe on the sound differences between the Dual Teddycap and Naim Hicap DR but shows that the significance of both the setup and room which will greatly affect or alter the results in favour of either units. With a more optimised placement of the speakers, I now prefer the sound of the Hicap DR more than the Dual Teddycap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLS
Speaker placement plays big role in how your system sounds and this shows it perfectly. For me, I just recently toed in my speakers more and actually now prefer the sound this way. I've always used my speakers with minimal toe-in but thought that I'd give this one a try and I'm glad I did.
 
For those who are interested especially Patu. A little update and I'll keep it short.

I have now settled with both Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap powering the NAC 282. Only one output from the Dual Teddycap is used to power the 282.

In the past I always got unsatisfactory results when combining both Naim and Teddycap PSUs on the 282. The sound especially the bass always ended up sounding too thick and unnatural with both Naim and Teddy power supplies on board. This time I think i managed to get the balance right.

To avoid being too long-winded, after some experimentation I figured out that the end result is dependent on many external factors mainly the setup of the system. With my system, they are as follows:-

1. The size and layout of the room which dictates the placement of speakers
2. Placement of speakers and toe-in; and lastly,
3. Type of footers supporting the NAP 250DR and DAC

I recently swapped the footers between the 250DR and DAC/CD player as I was doing some troubleshooting (it still didn't sound quite right). After the footers were swapped, a much better balance with the sound. I finally decided to connect the Dual Teddycap to the 282 which was already connected with the Hicap DR even though all my previous attempts ended up in failure. This time, a success.

Main improvements between Hicap DR + Dual Teddycap vs. single Hicap DR are improved low end definition (more control and less smearing with the bass lines) and background details become more prominent and pushed out a little more. Some may choose to say the details are improved or better but i just feel the details are the same but pushed out a little more from the background.

I didn't expect to settle down with this configuration but looks like the system will stay this way for a while..

The Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap at the bottom of the rack.

20180930_163542-1.jpg
 
This is very interesting combination but it's good that you found a combination that works for you. Actually this thread made me want to try HiCap DR again, since I've done small changes to my system elsewhere since I replaced HCDR with TeddyCap. But I feel stupid to even think about buying one again and my setup sounds really good atm.
 
Long term listening is essential. After almost 2 weeks with the system, I found the need to remove the Teddycap from the 282 as the instruments in the background such as percussion and drums are not extending out from the speakers. It sounds like the instruments are held back as the bass sounds little weak. I have previously mentioned above that the bass is more controlled but ultimately found it too be too thick. The bass with just one Hicap DR may sound looser and leaner but it is extending out more from the speakers, sounding more open. The added control of the bass with the second Teddycap made the bass sound more restrained apart from the background instruments which also appear to be slightly restrained.

Patu, our room and system are not the same so I believe it is not accurate to draw a conclusion based on my findings. Furthermore I am using a combination of Hicap DR and Teddycap with my 282 which is a very different configuration from your Supernait 2 which can only take either Hicap DR or Teddycap, not both of them together. My suggestion is to leave the system as it is if you are happy with the current performance.
 
I can see it’s been a few years since the last post but…….Which snaic cables were you guys using? Was it Naim with Naim and TP with TP? If so, did you or could you try the Naim snaic with the Dual TP and the TP snaic with the Hicap to see how these cables impact the sound?
 
Finkfan said:
I can see it’s been a few years since the last post but…….Which snaic cables were you guys using? Was it Naim with Naim and TP with TP? If so, did you or could you try the Naim snaic with the Dual TP and the TP snaic with the Hicap to see how these cables impact the sound?
Click to expand...

I was fortunate to not only have both standard Naim and TP(white coloured) cables but also Chord Signature Tuned Aray for comparison. I've tried the various permutations and believe me the exercise was not an easy thing to do, to swap the cables and the power supplies on Naim amps and listen to potential differences.

In summary, my findings if my memory doesn't fail me:
1. Dual Teddycap sounded better with TP cables than Naim standard cables. Slightly better clarity in the sound.
2. Hicap DR sounded better with standard Naim cables than TP cables.
3. Hicap DR sounded better with Chord Signature TA than standard Naim cables

I can't recall if I tried the Dual Teddycap with Chord Signature TA cables.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top