DimitryZ
pfm Member
No need to imagine, just google "Inquisition."
Afghanistan withdrawal.
- Thread starter Martyn Miles
- Start date
notaclue
pfm Member
Lucky that that riding around in the infidels' Humvees is not haram.
I would have thought something like might be considered worse than 'showing your face whilst being a woman', but apparently not.
https://gandhara.rferl.org/a/afghan-taliban-cities-captured/31409229.html
I would have thought something like might be considered worse than 'showing your face whilst being a woman', but apparently not.
https://gandhara.rferl.org/a/afghan-taliban-cities-captured/31409229.html
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Stoning is a punishment for blasphemy in the Bible. People who believe in the Bible as the word of God are pretty mainstream, so stoning to death as a punishment for non belief is not ‘extreme’, but mainstream.
Before we accuse the Taliban of being medieval, perhaps mainstream Christianity should be brought into the modern world
flatpopely
Prog Rock/Moderator
No religion is without fault but using 'stoning' in the Bible as a reason to give the Taliban some slack is just plain wrong.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yes, you might be right, but I was not trying to cut the Taliban any slack at all, just pointing to our own religious hypocrisy
farfromthesun
pfm Member
Don't think so - the Afghan army, previously supported by the US War machine, has been totally abandoned. Taking away the air support, the boots on the ground, the tactical prowess, military hardware and everything else in the blink of an eye has left them ridiculously and hopelessly exposed. Their "choice" now, is to either "melt away" as you put it or martyr themselves and their families at the behest of people in The West labelling them cowards. It'd take a braver man than me to stand firm at my station whilst fully aware of my impotence and faced with odds on death for myself and my family.
What the US, Britain and any other supposed ally has done to Afghanistan is truly horrendous, and unforgivable and the assertion that Afghan people are in favour of Taliban rule will be quickly and rigorously tested once we see how the impending humanitarian and refugee crisis pans out.
flatpopely
Prog Rock/Moderator
Would you have preferred that the ‘west’ stayed in Afghanistan or not gone there, after the USSR, at all?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
When the Afghan refugees start coming across the channel in rubber boats, will there be headlines demanding we send them back?
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
It hasn't happened in the blink of an eye. Untold billions and personnel have been invested by the US and NATO in training the Afghan army for many, many years, in parallel with many other billions deployed by the world at large on infrastructure and "nation building" (loya jirga, Mr Karzai, elections, "governance" etc.)
These efforts have gone on for 20 years but seem to have been in vain: the billions have evaporated through corruption and the sheer difficulty of investing in a vast mountainous country where a large fraction of the population is armed and hostile, and the Army is not up to the task, for whatever reason, of holding territory without considerable US air and special forces support. At some point, the question in the US of "what are we doing there?" becomes a legitimate one. They've tried and failed.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I just hope I don’t have to go to Fort Lockhart with some Apaches!... I’d love to visit, but I doubt I’d last five minutes these days.
A truly great story
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi
A truly great story
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi
In a book written 2000 years ago. How many stonings have there been in Bible reading countries in the last, say 2 or 3 hundred years?
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
Pogroms? Plenty of those.
The Bible contains plenty of ghastly paragraphs, but nobody takes any notice apart from a few zealots. We view the Bible as man-made and of its time, and Christianity's political influence has declined dramatically, certainly in Europe. Meanwhile, Wahhabi Islam has spread its literal message, relentlessly promoted by Saudi and Gulf money, and Iran has done a similar job for Shia Islam.
But looking at Christian nutters in various parts of the world and the spread of fake news and internet echo chambers, I feel that it would not take much for a much more literal view to return in America and Europe.
Colin L
High-tech low-life
The problem for good governance in Afghanistan (and much of Africa) is that the societies are tribal. It’s hard to embed a coherent and respected government and the tendency is to breakdown into civil war and chaos. You could also argue that Islam, with its various militant sects, is similar. Compound this with meddling by “the great powers” and its a recipe for disaster.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
tones
Tones deaf
In addition, stoning was specifically an Old Testament punishment, given to the Israelites in the Mosaic Law. This was in the context of a nation that would be formed when the Israelites entered the Promised Land. On the other hand, Christianity is not and was never designed to be a nation with punishments - in contrast to the exclusive Judaism, it was inclusive and would take anyone from any background. The Old Testament forms part of the Bible, but it is essentially an indication of things to come, initial steps down the road, and not necessary to follow. Note also that the nation state of Israel has not resumed OT punishments or the bloody and more-or-less perpetual sacrificial system. And a modern Israeli can cook a goat in its mother's milk without incurring the wrath of the authorities (Ex.23.19).
farfromthesun
pfm Member
It's a chicken and egg scenario, and I don't know the answer. What I do know is that this withdrawal is going to further destabilise an already unstable situation.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
No, if you look at troop numbers and spending, support has been going down years. NATO troop presence peaked at 130,000 in 2011 and declined progressively to less than 10,000 now. Nato troops stopped active combat operations a while back (apart from special forces) and have focused on training hundreds of thousands of Afghan troops instead, including developing an Afghan Air Force.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
As Steve has already pointed out above, stoning and other archaic practises are not only no longer insisted upon by the vast majority of Christians world wide, they are also effectively prevented by the secular legal system, since most nominally 'Christian' countries place secular law above ALL religious law...especially in relation to barbaric punishments. That is precisely the problem with the current crop of extremists in Islamic countries. They insist that their own strict interpretation the texts is the only valid one, and further seem to wish to apply it to whole populations, whose own views may be rather more enlightened.
And in some other countries, such as Pakistan and India..and no doubt others.. there is constant tension between the actual laws of the country..and the way in which some sections of the population choose to treat each other, with, for example, 'blasphemy' being 'weaponised' by some against others. And of course 'adultery' in such contexts seem to be always the fault of the woman.. never the man. Even rape frequently attracts condemnation/isolation of the victim, whilst the perpetrator walks free.
I worked for a while alongside a Muslim woman of Bangladeshi extraction. She was lovely. Witty, attractive and generally good fun..and with a wicked sense of humour. She wore a fairly cursory headscarf.. and always either trousers or a long dress, but she didn't hide her face or her figure. She was married, with a couple of young kids. One day I was muttering about reported stonings in Afghanistan or somewhere. Her initial reaction was to laugh.. because she thought I was joking. In her own experience and frame of reference, stoning was unheard of. She insisted that stoning was not a punishment which she had ever heard of, much less would condone.
Of course I'm not suggesting for a moment that all Muslims think like the Taliban, or ISIS, which is why I suggested that the Afghan situation reflects a 'sectarian' conflict within the Islamic world. There is no valid comparison to be made with mainstream modern Christianity, or in fact any other major World religion.