Next round of GCSE and A level results

[AnilS]

Is there a danger that a child, with inflated grades, gets a better than expected course/uni, only to struggle due to incapability?

I have this fear for some kids.

 

[Woodface]

Assessment is always imperfect but the % of A’s is a little concerning. 2nd & 3rd years of a degree are generally a big step up compared to A-levels, once again we, as a country, are failing our children.

The sooner we get a competent government the better.

 

[ks.234]

Assessment is always imperfect but the % of A’s is a little concerning. 2nd & 3rd years of a degree are generally a big step up compared to A-levels, once again we, as a country, are failing our children.

The sooner we get a competent government the better.

We need a government that is prepared to recognise the structural problems in our education system rather than just tinkering around the edges.

 

[gintonic]

How will you make offers to potential students if half the applicants are getting A grades?

students apply before grades are known, we make offers against the application form and not the actual grades.

If all the students we offer to meet there offer we issue then all will get a place. Of course there could be capacity (both physical and staffing) issues if very many more achieve the entry requirements.

If the system were to change to post A'Level results applications, then there will be different considerations to take into account.

 

[gavreid]

The real problem remains the public schools where 70% of all entries were assessed as A or A*.

I'm in favour of retaining teacher assessment and for there to be no rationing of grades. I'd certainly scrap the private exam boards and put quality control back to the universities.

 

[tones]

The real problem remains the public schools where 70% of all entries were assessed as A or A*.

This baffles me. When I did A-levels (1964), an A or its then equivalent was an impossible dream for all but the very brightest. As an admittedly rather ordinary student, the best I ever achieved was a B. So, have school students become substantially brighter, or have the exams somehow been watered down?

 

[deebster]

The latter in my opinion. Where I work we employ what they like to call graduates, but are just 18-21 year olds, some of whom have been to university. Many struggle to construct a coherent sentence.

Still, my son gets his GCSE results tomorrow so I'm hoping this upping of grades plays into his hands.

 

[calorgas]

Well daughter no.2 achieved the grades needed to get onto her chosen course at Bristol Uni, so a collective sigh of relief here yesterday. The level of grade inflation has not helped necessarily as no-one likes to have the shadow of doubt cast over your achievements, but looking at the % of high grades this year (and last) it's inevitable. She's hard working and bright (gets that from her mother obvs ) so I have few concerns about whether she'll cope with the course content, I just hope that in the next academic year the teaching will settle back into some form of normality, for all ages.

 

[gavreid]

This baffles me. When I did A-levels (1964), an A or its then equivalent was an impossible dream for all but the very brightest. As an admittedly rather ordinary student, the best I ever achieved was a B. So, have school students become substantially brighter, or have the exams somehow been watered down?

The exams have been watered down over decades, going back to the early 80s probably, but it's accelerated over the past 20 years. I don't think many grasp that the system is about controlling entry to HE rather than individual attainment referenced, say, to the 60s. As HE has expanded to meet the needs of the economy and the pressure of international competition, there has been a need for more students to get higher grades to meet entry requirements. My feel is the education is broader today but is lacking depth and problem solving of all kinds.

 

[tones]

I noticed an interesting article in the FT this morning on this very subject:

https://www.ft.com/content/35d8c648...9e233c8#myft:notification:daily-email:content

Unfortunately paywalled, but an excerpt:

Why were grades so high this year?
Because grades were decided by teachers on the basis of a “basket of evidence”, which demonstrated the maximum potential of each student, this effectively did away with fixed grade boundaries that before the pandemic put limits on the number of top marks that could be awarded.

The decision, which led to a ballooning in top grades, was taken after an outcry in 2020 over a computer-based approach designed to keep results in line with previous years, leading to manifest injustices, particularly in schools in more disadvantaged areas.

 

[Konteebos]

If nothing else, the current debacle is highlighting the extraordinary degree to which the often very minor differences between marks and grades can impact someone's life chances.
And naturally, given the opportunity, private schools seem to have taken more advantage of the situation than state schools.

My daughter has a friend who goes to a private school - she told my daughter that they were allowed to re-take any tests where they had performed badly. At my daughter's (State) school this was not allowed - they were given a series of tests under proper exam conditions and the results determined their grades. No wonder the private schools appear to be out-performing the State schools when they are allowed to game the system in this way.

 

[narabdela]

Is there a danger that a child, with inflated grades, gets a better than expected course/uni, only to struggle due to incapability?

I have this fear for some kids.

I know a guy who teaches Engineering at a 'clearing' university. They're finding that a fair number of new students nowadays can't cope with the maths required for the course.

 

[tones]

We need a government that is prepared to recognise the structural problems in our education system rather than just tinkering around the edges.

Our daughters went through the Swiss school system, and while not perfect (what system is?), it does offer one solution. Its functioning varies from canton to canton, but it seems overall designed to kill you. It is designed so that only about 20% of the kids that start secondary education will survive to do the Matura, the Swiss equivalent of A-levels. The others? Like the Germans, the Swiss have an excellent system of vocational training, and the non-academic go into apprenticeships and come out at the end into well-paying jobs - and there's nothing to stop them continuing their education later (some kids are simply late developers - one of the best chemists I know started out as an apprentice and ended up with a PhD).

The Matura itself is set and marked by the individual Gymnasiums with assistance from outside experts, meaning that the results are known in a matter of weeks. Generally the pass rates are very high, simply because nearly all possible failures have already been screened out. They then receive the little red book with their subjects and marks, which is their passport to university.

 

[ks.234]

This baffles me. When I did A-levels (1964), an A or its then equivalent was an impossible dream for all but the very brightest. As an admittedly rather ordinary student, the best I ever achieved was a B. So, have school students become substantially brighter, or have the exams somehow been watered down?

The difference is, I think, that in to good ol’ days, teachers taught to provide an education, whereas now teachers teach to the exam and all that counts, all that is measured, is results in exams, and what more, in a narrower curriculum that excludes many arts subjects

 

[miktec]

The exams have been watered down over decades, going back to the early 80s probably, but it's accelerated over the past 20 years. I don't think many grasp that the system is about controlling entry to HE rather than individual attainment referenced, say, to the 60s. As HE has expanded to meet the needs of the economy and the pressure of international competition, there has been a need for more students to get higher grades to meet entry requirements. My feel is the education is broader today but is lacking depth and problem solving of all kinds.

An oft repeated fantasy I'm afraid.
That is simply not how either system works - certainly not since the proliferation of HE institutions post '90s

 

[gavreid]

I know a guy who teaches Engineering at a 'clearing' university. They're finding that a fair number of new students nowadays can't cope with the maths required for the course.

I used to be responsible for quality assurance in my science department in a 'top' university. That meant (in part) facing a 5 yearly subject review with outside 'experts'. I was asked by one of the local suits (a mathematician) why we were expecting first year students to cope with the concept of exponentials!! That was a good decade ago too.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

The difference is, I think, that in to good ol’ days, teachers taught to provide an education, whereas now teachers teach to the exam and all that counts, all that is measured, is results in exams, and what more, in a narrower curriculum that excludes many arts subjects

This is the Govey Gradgrind model in action. It’s also an example of how you can get obsessed by metrics and miss the point. If this is what you can measure, then this is what becomes important. We need a more subjectivist approach to education.

 

[miktec]

If the system were to change to post A'Level results applications, then there will be different considerations to take into account.

And goal posts will be changed accordingly (very carefully of course)

 

[richardg]

students apply before grades are known, we make offers against the application form and not the actual grades.

If all the students we offer to meet there offer we issue then all will get a place. Of course there could be capacity (both physical and staffing) issues if very many more achieve the entry requirements.

If the system were to change to post A'Level results applications, then there will be different considerations to take into account.

I dont quite understand....so their A level results don't really matter? In fact I could apply without even studying for them? Maybe do 2 years in a company at 16, working in marketing and apply for a Marketing degree?

 

[ks.234]

Our daughters went through the Swiss school system, and while not perfect (what system is?), it does offer one solution. Its functioning varies from canton to canton, but it seems overall designed to kill you. It is designed so that only about 20% of the kids that start secondary education will survive to do the Matura, the Swiss equivalent of A-levels. The others? Like the Germans, the Swiss have an excellent system of vocational training, and the non-academic go into apprenticeships and come out at the end into well-paying jobs - and there's nothing to stop them continuing their education later (some kids are simply late developers - one of the best chemists I know started out as an apprentice and ended up with a PhD).

The Matura itself is set and marked by the individual Gymnasiums with assistance from outside experts, meaning that the results are known in a matter of weeks. Generally the pass rates are very high, simply because nearly all possible failures have already been screened out. They then receive the little red book with their subjects and marks, which is their passport to university.

As an 11+ failure I am instinctively against a hierarchical division between separate academic and vocational systems of education and even more against a quota system. We need to get to a point where both are valued equally for both to be viable and we need a system that allows for life long learning for those who mature, or just become interested in education later in life.

I can’t speak for other countries but above all, the UK needs a system for all, rather than the multiplicity of competing systems with different and unbalanced funding models that we have now

There’s a lot to be said for Labour’s National Education Service, but that appears to have been abandoned in recent months.