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what really happened during the late 70s early 80s in the hifi press

I see little difference in the HiFi press now compared to the 1970/80 press. Importers are more important these days with extremely high prices of course:)

I like the flat earth sound, naim amps excluded, for classical music.

I have two main areas of disappointment with the US hifi press these days.

First, there are very few comparisons with similarly priced gear. If you view reviews as a purchasing aid, that drastically reduces their usefulness. If I'm interested in, for example, the AT ART9XA, it doesn't help when a reviewer compares it to the Lyra Atlas or Clearaudio Goldfinger. Or, for that matter, to a Grado Gold or AT VM95 series. Compare it to the Hana ML, similarly priced Dynavector, Ortofon Cadenza Red, etc. The fact that most reviewers can't be bothered tells me that they're not intended as a purchase aid, but sheerly for bloviation and written masturbation.

Second, you almost never get a sense of what something might actually sound like. There are usually sections on the components presentation (what it looks like, how it was boxed, etc.), propaganda from the company as to its technology, appearance, etc. The sound quality section is usually chock full of nuggets like "It presented the acoustic of the space as well as I've ever heard it," or "The XXX is a mature [component]. It knows what it needs to do and just gets the job done . . ." Part of this failing is the lack of comparisons mentioned above (excluding group reviews in UK mags like HiFiChoice).

As for the UK press, it seemed like it was a circular firing squad back in the day, though with quite a bit more variety amongst reviewers. It's hard to read a review from Martin Colloms back to back with one from Ken Kessler. They were on totally different planets. Or, perhaps, just different pharmaceuticals.

So I think we've moved to a hifi press these days that is much more closely related to marketing and much less to being helpful and informative to the end user. That's unfortunate.
 
My most poignant memory of flat earth dealers was the utter contempt that they showed me until I got angry with them. I did turn up in my motorcycle leathers, long hair and a big red beard though. Buying kit was a battle. Complete numpties.
 
I have two main areas of disappointment with the US hifi press these days.

There was a Golden Age of US hifi press, and I'd place it from the late 1960s through the early 1980s. Starting with the appearance of The Stereophile and The Absolute Sound, and ending when those two titles began taking ads from manufacturers. In that time period there were other digest-size magazines that came and went, and some of those were good too. And at least one mainstream magazine, Audio, was publishing genuinely useful reviews from the likes of Richard C. Heyser and Bascom H. King. When you read a review, you came away with a good idea of what the piece sounded like, how it stacked up against the competition, and whether or not you'd probably like it. And sometimes they printed negative reviews.
 
I like the way they sometimes try to avoid conflict by recommending a product at each price point. And won't say anything is very wrong with any of them.

I follow a few online car reviewers and you never get to hear their real opinion until the next model comes out. Only then will they say something like, 'the problem with the previous model was XYZ', but guess what, all sorted now.
 
I had a friend at Leeds medical school who bought an LP12 from Audio Projects in around 1977 or 8. I remember it cost him just under £50. I thought he was mad. I bought a Thorens 124 a few years later and then swapped it for an LP12 which I kept for about 35 years. Audio Projects, Bill in particular, would hardly let you buy anything other than Naim to go with the LP12 and they were forever pushing all the upgrades as they came out from Nirvana, Valhalla, Trampolinn etc. It was almost like a cult following. None of my friends particularly liked the sound of my system and some asked me where the bass was, regardless of which speakers I had at the time. I think I used a Syrinx PU2 before Linn arms came out.
It was only with active SBLs and a couple of 250s that the system sounded alive and that was probably a good 25 years from my original 42/160 combo.
The LP12 was replaced by a Well Tempered deck and the Naim stuff by ATC. It’s never sounded better!
 
The only way is to compare to live acoustic music. Nothing more.
Pop music will never really be hi-fi, that’s impossible. There’s no way to tell what it sounds like because it’s fabricated.
The best you could do is get the sound the engineer heard at the studio.
But is that hi-fi? I don’t think it is.


I like the way you think.
 
My 1988 LP12 / Arcam Alpha / Royd A7 system was always commented on as having really good bass for the speaker size. Somebody once asked if I had a sub!
 
The Linn/Naim religion never took hold in the USA either, and though the LP12 sold well here it was frequently inserted into decidedly Round Earth systems, and seldom used with Linn arms or cartridges.

Well it did in Quebec and I still can't understand why.

I remember one of my contemporaries saying that a Naim amplifier looked like a box of Kleenex tissues. I thought he was almost correct but pretty mean.

Last bit of my rant: any manufacturer who gives off a whiff of religion turns me right off.
 
lots of interesting perspectives really enjoyed folks' views. Can I hear some experts/devotees of Garrard 301/401 turntables. To be fair to the reviewers and buying public when Linn and many other 3 point suspension decks hit the market, I remember the big criticism of the idler design was rumble (I think). So, was this more about poor plinths - I remember my father's thin boxy ply affair, I can't recall the make, but it lacked mass and from my young engineering eye seemed sub-standard. I have seen some very solid-looking ply constructions and other very heavy granite etc designs today, is this the secret sauce that has allowed these decks to shine now? or is there other work needed to their mechanism, or was the criticism just not justified back in the day?

I have not heard a properly sorted one, so it's all hearsay. I am enjoying my 30-year-old gyrodec more now than ever but would love to hear some of these decks side by side to really hear if there is much in it.
 
btw, full disclosure, I have never owned Linn, but did get the Naim bug, hence my handle. I got up to 8 boxes, fully active SBLs with 250s - then stopped. Sold my last Naim item recently, a very nice CD2, which to be fair was my favorite part I owned. I now have a fully active 6 way setup, using DSP active crossover with homemade Ripole subs and hybrid ELS - loving the quality of the sound I am getting.
 
You heard sorted idlers on the classical radio channels, Even Radio 3 needed quick starting to speed before DDs got mature.
 
Despite the democratization of information, I'd argue that the 'silo' effect is still very much evident. Just looking at PFM, discussion of turntables still revolve predominantly around the LP12, Rega, Orbe, Gyro, old Garrards and perhaps the odd SME and Nottingham. You'd think that there are no other serious turntables around. Similarly, when it comes to amplification, we tend to go on and on about Naim, Rega, etc.

So what has really changed?
 
Possibly, though I'm certain it was him - it stuck in my mind since to prefer a competitor over the chosen one at that time was quite unusual. Think I have the magazine somewhere so will have a dig around.
I think this may have been Dave Berriman at Practicle HiFi as he reviewed a few turntables in the early 1980's he thought were better than the Linn.
In 1981 (March) he wrote a review of the Trio / Kenwood L-07D and he thought was better than the Linn and in July 81 a comparison of the Oracle and the L-07D where he concluded each had certain strengths, but both were better than the current Linn.
Strangely I was an LP12 owner and little before those reviews came out I had also compared both the L-07D and Oracle to the LP12. It was one of the very few times I have agreed almost entirely with what a reviewer has written. His L-07D to Oracle comparison was almost exactly as I heard them. I had already traded in my LP12 and bought an L-07D when those reviews appeared and I'm still using it.
 
lots of interesting perspectives really enjoyed folks' views. Can I hear some experts/devotees of Garrard 301/401 turntables. To be fair to the reviewers and buying public when Linn and many other 3 point suspension decks hit the market, I remember the big criticism of the idler design was rumble (I think). So, was this more about poor plinths - I remember my father's thin boxy ply affair, I can't recall the make, but it lacked mass and from my young engineering eye seemed sub-standard. I have seen some very solid-looking ply constructions and other very heavy granite etc designs today, is this the secret sauce that has allowed these decks to shine now? or is there other work needed to their mechanism, or was the criticism just not justified back in the day?

There was a very, very strong ‘idler bad/belt drive good’ at the time both in the press and at high st dealers. I came onboard at exactly this time and remember reading all manner of negativity towards the GL75 I’d just bought as part of my first system (Quad, JR149, all second hand). I really liked that Lenco. I remember damping the plinth with huge amounts of plasticine etc as HiFi Answers said to, and I think that helped. I was never conscious of bad rumble, though the arm was obviously pretty agricultural. The bottom line is no idler drive deck will ever be as quiet as a belt drive or direct drive, but there is way more to playing a record than a simple S/N ratio. Within a couple of years I’d moved the Lenco on, first for a Leak 3001, which was a fairly budget rebrand of a ‘70s Toshiba belt drive, and whilst it brought a better arm it just wasn’t good overall. That only stayed a few months. Next up was a Ariston RD80 first with a Linn LVV, which was just junk, and soon after with a wonderfully unfashionable AT1120 low mass arm. Thinking back there was still something missing, a connection that was there with the Lenco was still missing, though I did like the RD80 with the AT1200 and high compliance MMs like the Ortofon M20FL. I learned a lot about arms and cartridges at that time.

Next up was the infamous Xerxes, which was the point I felt vinyl replay really sounded ok. I bought it over a Linn purely because it played 45s without being a total PITA about it (assuming the PSU was working). I also only had enough cash for either a LVX or RB300, and the latter is just so much better that helped the choice too (the LVV being so piss poor really put me off any Linn arm below the Ittok, which I couldn’t afford, and at the time it was still illegal to put an RB300 on a Linn).

I didn’t have the knowledge, language or experience at that time to really understand that journey, but I think the Xerxes was the first deck that fixed the issues of the Lenco (mainly its arm) but didn’t screw what it did right up. Shame it was so badly made and the support so poor. It wasn’t until decades later that I’d go back to idlers, after some very enjoyable times with LP12s, a P9 and a Spacedeck. I suspect I’m where I’ll stay now. The TD-124 isn’t perfect, but it is a satisfying end-point to this particular journey. Almost a a circular trajectory back to where I started out.

In hindsight I certainly placed far too much trust in both the hi-fi press and the BADA dealer network, but I still very much view it as a fashion/group-think thing rather than any cynical conspiracy. Most folk in the industry were very decent and well-meaning, if maybe not quite as bright as they thought they were. Customers too, myself included, obviously. It takes both to create a scene/trend of that magnitude.

PS The Linn marketing had been so successful that anything without a suspended subchassis had a hard ride too. I remember talking to Tom Fletcher of Nottingham Analogue much later on and he explained the original Dais only had a subchassis due to market pressure and that he couldn’t get reviews, dealers etc without. His advice was to keep the transit screws locked down and ideally remove the springs entirely. He did not like “bouncy bouncy decks” at all.
 
Oh yes and Naim seem to have sold 500 of their new £16K record players to people who can't possibly have auditioned them! How does that work?

It works exactly the same way as it does with anything limited edition from a brand that has carefully built themselves into an icon. Ferrari and Porsche sold all their F40s and 959s (respectively) before anyone outside of the factories had driven them for instance. It's not uncommon so not sure why you are confused. The brand is well established and produces products people love and aspire to... it was never going to have an issue selling 500 Solstices and the good thing is you know the product will be excellent even if not to 'your' taste.
 
Back to the PRaT nonsense. Clever marketing stuff that just affected Britain.
You had Quad, Leak, Redford, Garrard, Tannoy, Lowther… much, much better!

Clever marketing or not Linn and Naim are still thriving today and the others less so!
 
Despite the democratization of information, I'd argue that the 'silo' effect is still very much evident. Just looking at PFM, discussion of turntables still revolve predominantly around the LP12, Rega, Orbe, Gyro, old Garrards and perhaps the odd SME and Nottingham. You'd think that there are no other serious turntables around. Similarly, when it comes to amplification, we tend to go on and on about Naim, Rega, etc.

So what has really changed?

Very true, though Michell, NA, Garrrads or SME would not really be considered part of 'Flat Earth' Hifi IMO. I haven't counted but I'm pretty sure the majority of PFM'ERS who own a turntable would either be LP12 or Rega users and indeed back in 2005 when I first joined PFM under the name of @Metallifan I was only only member that I was aware of using a NA Hyperspace with two tonearms, a little has changed but the vast majority of 'analogue' threads in the Audio room seem to be Rega or LP12 based.
 
Clever marketing or not Linn and Naim are still thriving today and the others less so!

I’d personally not put those two together. Linn are in original pioneer/family ownership, as are Rega. Naim, like Quad, Tannoy, and if you stretch it to include a badge on an IAG box, Leak, are all in foreign ownership with some greater or lesser UK presence (Naim currently having the most).

FWIW I personally feel the best companies have a natural creative flow, trajectory, and lifespan that is almost always attached to the original visionary. I still view Naim as Julian Vereker, just as I view Linn as Ivor T, Quad as Peter Walker, Leak as Harold Leak etc. I’d argue Leak were over as soon as Harold sold the brand to Rank, it just wasn’t the same company even if they made stuff in the UK for a decade or so after that point. I was half tempted to suggest Tannoy were over once Guy Fountain had sold-up too, but they did make some very good speakers after that point (HPDs onwards) so buck the trend a little even if their real innovation had all been done decades earlier. A lot of old hi-fi companies are almost the equivalent of a cover band; like going to see ‘The Jimi Hendrix Experience’ now with no original members, but still playing all the old songs for a far more monied audience.
 


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