Tyres… also roadside assistance.

[SteveG]

I had a front tyre on my old Citroen BX blow out on the motorway and it was a situation where the air suspension seemed to make quite a difference as not a lot happened other than a bit of juddering, and there was no drama involved in coming to a safe stop despite the tyre having destroyed itself. I seem to recall that if you jacked the suspension up to its highest setting you could even drive the car with one tyre missing - not that I even tried it.

 

[SteveG]

Struggled past The Lecht in early May 3 years ago, snow, fog. Always stop at The Whisky Castle for a lovely ice cream!

The Whisky Castle is going to be the ruin of me as it's just down the main street from my house so it's awfully tempting to just nip in for a look! The ice creams are good - including the whisky flavoured one.

The roads around Tomintoul are great for driving and in the last month or so I reckon every Caterham in the UK must have been through the village at some point, along with most of the UK's motorcycles.

 

[gintonic]

The roads around Tomintoul are great for driving

spent some time around there in my 981 Boxster S a few years back - great fun.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

I had this happen to me a few years ago at 70 mph (ish )
Boy, was I glad to be in a Quattro. Very well behaved on three wheels....

I was surprised how well the Golf behaved at 60mph on three tyres. Absolutely minimal braking and gentle steering inputs kept it pretty benign. The back end kicked out when the tyre popped but I was able to steer out of ( or rather into) it and get control back.

I reckon there should be a module to teach learners to handle a situation like this, perhaps via simulation or something. I’ve been driving a long time, and I’ve done track driving. I might have binned it if I’d been a new driver, it’s jarring when a car suddenly decides to steer itself in a different direction from where you’re pointing it, and you have to react quickly and appropriately. I think it becomes instinctive for most drivers, you feel the weight shift and just react as though the car is an extension of you, but you’re still learning and developing tyat sense for a good while after passing your test… I nearly binned my car a couple of times in my first couple of years of driving because of driving too quickly round a bend and not reading the balance of the car.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

… I nearly binned my car a couple of times in my first couple of years of driving because of driving too quickly round a bend and not reading the balance of the car.

So the lesson for a learner would be how to assess the correct speed for entry into a corner, rather than how to try to rescue a car once you’ve overestimated your talent?

As all new cars in the last 15 years or so have has ESC, I’m not sure there’s any value in teaching learners what to do in the event of a blow out. I always advised them to look into further tuition, advanced classes etc.
A couple of friends did days with the police on skid pans and were pretty scared of driving in the rain for a few months after. That wasn’t the aim!

 

[Cav]

I was surprised how well the Golf behaved at 60mph on three tyres. Absolutely minimal braking and gentle steering inputs kept it pretty benign. The back end kicked out when the tyre popped but I was able to steer out of ( or rather into) it and get control back.

I reckon there should be a module to teach learners to handle a situation like this, perhaps via simulation or something. I’ve been driving a long time, and I’ve done track driving. I might have binned it if I’d been a new driver, it’s jarring when a car suddenly decides to steer itself in a different direction from where you’re pointing it, and you have to react quickly and appropriately. I think it becomes instinctive for most drivers, you feel the weight shift and just react as though the car is an extension of you, but you’re still learning and developing tyat sense for a good while after passing your test… I nearly binned my car a couple of times in my first couple of years of driving because of driving too quickly round a bend and not reading the balance of the car.

Centrifugal (centripetal?) force will help even a fully deflated tyre retain roundness until the speed diminishes.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

So the lesson for a learner would be how to assess the correct speed for entry into a corner, rather than how to try to rescue a car once you’ve overestimated your talent?

As all new cars in the last 15 years or so have has ESC, I’m not sure there’s any value in teaching learners what to do in the event of a blow out. I always advised them to look into further tuition, advanced classes etc.
A couple of friends did days with the police on skid pans and were pretty scared of driving in the rain for a few months after. That wasn’t the aim!

Haha, well yes… but 18 year old lads don’t work like that.

What I actually meant, was that it’d be a good idea to teach student drivers how to handle an unexpected mechanical failure. A tyre blowing at speed is a pretty big event and how you handle it can potentially be the difference between pulling over, getting the wheel swapped and continuing your journey, or being cut out of a twisted wreck.

An engine failure can be pretty scary too, I had a Honda engine lock up with little to no warning on lane two of the M6 near Scunthorpe, felt like someone had suddenly hit my brakes for me… again, I’d got it, just dipped the clutch and steered it over to the hard shoulder and there was no real drama… but I’ve known people just stop in the live lane when they could’ve gotten their car to a safe spot because they didn’t/couldn’t assess what was actually happening.

They added hazard perception successfully and I really think that was a good thing… maybe just take that a little further.

Skid pan training/driving has been a thing for years and something I did along with some mates just because it was fun, but again, that teaches you about weight transfer. It’s something I recommend people do, partly because it’s hilarious but also to teach you how to keep a car in balance.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

Centrifugal (centripetal?) force will help even a fully deflated tyre retain roundness until the speed diminishes.

Yep, although mine broke up pretty quickly, it broke up a lot more as the speed bled off, it left a trail of rubber in the road behind me. I’d have thought low profile tyres would behave worse in this respect, which mine are.

 

[gintonic]

there are probably loads of things that should be covered in driver training and in the test, that aren't.
If they all get included, training might take much longer and the test 2 days.

What is the probability of a driver having to control a vehicle in the event of a blowout? I've never had a blowout in nearly 40 years of driving. Mind you I have had to drive on wet and slippery road surfaces loads of time. ...I would have appreciated some training on that.

 

[SteveG]

I’m not sure there’s any value in teaching learners what to do in the event of a blow out. I always advised them to look into further tuition, advanced classes etc.

Just don't advise them to do IAM! Many of the worst/most dangerous drivers I've been in a car with have had IAM qualifications.

We were driving back to Edinburgh from Tomintoul last night and came up behind a couple of motorcyclists who were riding very oddly and very poorly. We couldn't work out what they were up to until it dawned on both of us at the same time that it must have been an IAM instructor and his pupil. The pupil wasn't riding quite as badly as the instructor (who was riding just about as badly as I've seen anyone ride in a long while), so we reckoned he must still be new to IAM.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

there are probably loads of things that should be covered in driver training and in the test, that aren't.
If they all get included, training might take much longer and the test 2 days.

What is the probability of a driver having to control a vehicle in the event of a blowout? I've never had a blowout in nearly 40 years of driving. Mind you I have had to drive on wet and slippery road surfaces.

Yes, I get that.

I’d definitely recommend taking some non mandatory training, particularly if you’re an enthusiastic driver, there’s much to be gained from it.

Maybe insurance discount incentives for those who enrol in some certified post test training should be a thing? I know Pass Plus exists but it’s hardly exhaustive and the insurance incentives are pretty negligible. I never did the Pass Plus but I did get my driving instructor to sit with me on the motorway for an hour before venturing there myself which I felt was beneficial… although motorway driving is now part of normal driving tuition, again, I think this is a good thing.

Some things are hard to account for, like mixed weather conditions, rain is normal here but snow and ice is less common, so there are loads of clueless drivers on the roads when the weather becomes severe. My first ever lesson and a few thereafter were in snow, whilst I didn’t think so at the time, I was lucky with that, I got those skills mastered from the outset.

 

[SteveG]

I’d definitely recommend taking some non mandatory training, particularly if you’re an enthusiastic driver, there’s much to be gained from it.

If done some stuff with the police (they used to run motorcycle safety training stuff) and some with RoSPA (including a circuit based motorcycle "cornering skills" course that was a lot of fun) although that was quite a lot of years back. I did a bit of racing and track day stuff after that as well, although much of that was a need to unlearn stuff that was sensible on the road (such as going flat out over blind summits - that took ages to get my head around!).

 

[linnfomaniac83]

Just an update on the RAC, I’ve received a call from the CEO so they’re taking this way more seriously than I’d expected.

 

[Nero]

A day at a track trying a skidpan and a few other situations is a real eye-opener. I remember taking an RS3 on the skidpan at Thruxton, and to be honest, the traction control didn't really do much at first, I was so sh1t. But boy, you learn fast, and at least you're not trashing a car into a tree while you're doing it.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

If done some stuff with the police (they used to run motorcycle safety training stuff) and some with RoSPA (including a circuit based motorcycle "cornering skills" course that was a lot of fun) although that was quite a lot of years back. I did a bit of racing and track day stuff after that as well, although much of that was a need to unlearn stuff that was sensible on the road (such as going flat out over blind summits - that took ages to get my head around!).

I certainly wouldn’t carry too much track driving technique over to the road… not appropriate with road furniture, junctions and traffic moving in two directions… but actual vehicle handling is definitely transferrable.

 

[SteveG]

I certainly wouldn’t carry too much track driving technique over to the road… not appropriate with road furniture, junctions and traffic moving in two directions… but actual vehicle handling is definitely transferrable.

The cornering skills course was very useful for the road, as it let you explore the limits of the bike in a safer situation. The racing stuff (like going flat out over blind summits) - not so much.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

The cornering skills course was very useful for the road, as it let you explore the limits of the bike in a safer situation. The racing stuff (like going flat out over blind summits) - not so much.

Bikes are pretty alien to me, a mate taught me how to ride on an old Yamaha RD350 on a track many years ago, but I never took it beyond that, I’ve only ever ridden that bike on that track and not under anything like race conditions/speeds. I felt vulnerable there so never considered riding on the road… now I’d love to, I have mates who ride and I’d love to join them, but my disability means that I never will.

 

[gintonic]

A day at a track trying a skidpan

done a few of those. I was lucky enough to be invited (when you buy a new vehicle from a certain manufacturer) three times to take part in driver experience days, which taught you about driving your new vehicle (luckily they didnt make you use your actual car) - in more extreme conditions. The off road experience was an eye opener

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

done a few of those. I was lucky enough to be invited (when you buy a new vehicle from a certain manufacturer) three times to take part in driver experience days, which taught you about driving your new vehicle (luckily they didnt make you use your actual car) - in more extreme conditions. The off road experience was an eye opener

I suspect that may have been thought desirable, for the manufacturer in question, in order to reduce the attrition rate in their customers. Earlier 911s had a bit of a reputation as widowmakers…

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I suspect that may have been thought desirable, for the manufacturer in question, in order to reduce the attrition rate in their customers. Earlier 911s had a bit of a reputation as widowmakers…

The Porsche Experience is a very modern set up. I don’t think it existed back in the days of wayward 911 rear ends.

Edit: opened its doors in July 2008.