Colin Barron
pfm Member
Why all the emotion and insults, it is a fact that anyone who did not vote for labour enabled a Tory win.
Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Well, that’s rubbish. Tory/Lib-Dem marginals, anybody? Tory seats where Labour comes so far down the ballot a lost deposit is always a possibility, anybody? What good is voting Labour then? Why is tactical ‘ABT’ voting enabling the Tories in such cases?
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Can’t really be bothered with this.
I have voted tactically more often than I have voted Labour because I try to vote against the tory party first and foremost and have relocated a lot, living in places where Labour has little chance.
There was a long period of my voting life where a vote for Labour was totally wasted, in recent times it has recovered slightly (which I put down to Corbyn) then dipping, but they still have little chance here where it is actually not really worth voting. Hence my interest in PR and my anger at the LibDem sell-outs.
No apologies for putting a tactical vote first.
I have voted tactically more often than I have voted Labour because I try to vote against the tory party first and foremost and have relocated a lot, living in places where Labour has little chance.
There was a long period of my voting life where a vote for Labour was totally wasted, in recent times it has recovered slightly (which I put down to Corbyn) then dipping, but they still have little chance here where it is actually not really worth voting. Hence my interest in PR and my anger at the LibDem sell-outs.
No apologies for putting a tactical vote first.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
OK well done, you have got me there. Are there many Liberal marginals?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Gibberish, as has already been mentioned, not least by @Brian himself, many of us live in areas where the Tories have been overwhelmingly dominant since Perterloo and has never returned a Labour MP. In such areas the best option to vote against the Tories, has been to vote tactically.
kendo
Prussian bot
I voted for a non Labour party and in doing so I helped to hoof a sitting Tory out of the seat. So in what way does that enable a Tory win?
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Probably as many as safe Tory seats where voting or not voting for Labour makes no difference.
cooky1257
pfm Member
I'm not voting for Starmer because ; He isn't enough like the Green Party, isn't a Scotish nationalist, isn't as leftwing as Corbyn, isn't in favour of PR, isn't anti Brexit.
You wont get a Labour government unless you vote 'for' them be that directly for a Lab candidate in your constituency that can actually win or tactically to keep the Tory candidate out.
That all begs the question, on current showing do you actually want a Labour government? Sadly for my 40 odd years of Labour voting I don't know, I dont know who or what focus group they represent anymore.
As a generalisation failing to vote Labour is enabling a Tory majority.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-marginality/
Of the 650 parliamentary constituencies, 67 seats were won by a margin of 5% or less of votes cast. This is 30 fewer than the 97 won by such narrow margins in the 2017 Election.
The number of very safe seats increased slightly, continuing the upward trend seen in recent elections. Seats won by a margin of over 50% increased from 35 in 2017 to 37 in 2019, while the number of seats won by a margin of between 45% and 50% increased from 29 to 31.
In the 2019 election however, the number of three-way marginals greatly diminished, and those that did occur were not so concentrated in one part of the UK. 17 seats had a vote-share gap between first and third place of less than 20 percentage points and only three of these had a gap of less than 10 percentage points. The 20 closest three-way marginals in the 2019 General Election are shown in the table below.
The Brexit Party was involved in five of the top 20 three-way marginals. In all five of these seats, Labour won and the Conservatives occupied the other spot in the top three.
In three of the London seats featuring in the top 20, the Liberal Democrats’ vote share appeared to be boosted by the candidacy of high-profile defectors from other parties:
You wont get a Labour government unless you vote 'for' them be that directly for a Lab candidate in your constituency that can actually win or tactically to keep the Tory candidate out.
That all begs the question, on current showing do you actually want a Labour government? Sadly for my 40 odd years of Labour voting I don't know, I dont know who or what focus group they represent anymore.
As a generalisation failing to vote Labour is enabling a Tory majority.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-marginality/
Of the 650 parliamentary constituencies, 67 seats were won by a margin of 5% or less of votes cast. This is 30 fewer than the 97 won by such narrow margins in the 2017 Election.
The number of very safe seats increased slightly, continuing the upward trend seen in recent elections. Seats won by a margin of over 50% increased from 35 in 2017 to 37 in 2019, while the number of seats won by a margin of between 45% and 50% increased from 29 to 31.
In the 2019 election however, the number of three-way marginals greatly diminished, and those that did occur were not so concentrated in one part of the UK. 17 seats had a vote-share gap between first and third place of less than 20 percentage points and only three of these had a gap of less than 10 percentage points. The 20 closest three-way marginals in the 2019 General Election are shown in the table below.
The Brexit Party was involved in five of the top 20 three-way marginals. In all five of these seats, Labour won and the Conservatives occupied the other spot in the top three.
In three of the London seats featuring in the top 20, the Liberal Democrats’ vote share appeared to be boosted by the candidacy of high-profile defectors from other parties:
Tony L
Administrator
I’d turn that on its head by arguing that Labour rejecting core left-wing and anti-namtionalist/fascist ideology and policy are the ones enabling a hard popularist-right Conservative party. They own their own mess, their own failure.
I keep making the case for the SNP being proof of concept of a viable left. They prove beyond any shadow of doubt that a forceful coherent centre-left party can absolutely wipe Tories out if they don’t sit on the fence, cower to racists etc. There is never any doubt where the SNP sit on the core issues of the day or about their fundamental opposition to Tory policy and grift. They nail it time after time. The Tories and Labour barely exist in Scotland now.
Labour have probably left it too late to learn anything now, I suspect they are just a spent force, an anachronism. No focus group can save them as they just haven’t a clue.
cooky1257
pfm Member
Except worryingly the 2019 election was fought with a Corbyn manifesto rather than the new Tory-Lite one from Starmer I can only see further decline in idealism that talks to me.
Tony L
Administrator
I strongly suspect it wasn’t the manifesto that lost. Sadly Corbyn turned out to be a clown, just not up to the job. We also need to factor Farage/Banks buying ‘red wall’ votes just to tip the seats Tory. That was a very real factor, the seat down the road from me fell as a result of that, as did many others. There is no doubt Corbyn caused a lot of damage to Labour as by being so feckless he inadvertently re-empowered the right of the party, who a remarkably toxic force and will not give that land-grab back. Another reason I feel the Labour Party is finished. It had an attempt at returning to core function, but totally blew it.
cooky1257
pfm Member
Yep 100% agree.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I voted for a non Labour* candidate and ousted a Tory. We rid ourselves of Tories, took away more than half their remaking seats and did people like Brian a favour while countering the Kippers carpetbagging inside the Tory Party. Meanwhile in England Labour voters were handing over literally dozens of seats to Boris Johnson’s party. You’d think Brian would show some gratitude.
How about a little thank you Brian?
* my voting record is a private matter. Sanctity of the polling booth/ private/ and plausible deniability.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Yes, I know, you’ve said it before and I acknowledge it. What you will not acknowledge is the significant part played by 41 Labour seats in Scotland becoming 1 seat makes it more difficult for Labour to oust the tories from govt. It’s frankly ridiculous that you dismiss that as an important factor, even more ridiculous that brexit has been cited as a reason yet that reduction happened when Labour wasn’t even in govt and it was before the 2016 referendum.I voted for a non Labour* candidate and ousted a Tory. We rid ourselves of Tories, took away more than half their remaking seats and did people like Brian a favour while countering the Kippers carpetbagging inside the Tory Party. Meanwhile in England Labour voters were handing over literally dozens of seats to Boris Johnson’s party. You’d think Brian would show some gratitude.
How about a little thank you Brian?
* my voting record is a private matter. Sanctity of the polling booth/ private/ and plausible deniability.
Why the asterisk, by the way? Vote for whatever party you wish to vote for and I’m not about to ask you which party that is. Volunteer the info if you like, as I have.
notaclue
pfm Member
Colin Barron
pfm Member
There are several traditional Labour safe seats near us in Durham where people voted Tory or did not vote at all, resulting in a Tory win.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
Assuming Labour don't go bust, they can carry on business as usual and the Tories will eventually lose a GE. This may take some time.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Brian, has anyone answered that yet? Colin Barron is saying that in the North East, Labour voters voted for Boris Johnson’s party or they didn’t get off the DFS to vote at all. How can we Scots be expected to make up for this? I certainly don’t believe in rewarding this sort of behaviour. People must take responsibility for their actions.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I agree.
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