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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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Labour: not quite as crap as the Conservatives.

\o/ Go new slogan! \o/

Come on Tony! That's far too long and complicated for the Great British Public. To be successful, it's got to be a simple three word soundbite, something even the least well-educated will understand, and you know, something that will actually win votes:

"Be More Tory".
 
He was asking you about your voting choice not some abstract thoughts from someone else’s exit pole. Why so shy?
Local elections: Liberal.
Labour lost control of the council in Durham to the Liberals at the last local elections.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-57259010

General elections: Whichever party has best predicted odds to remove Labour. Over the years that has mainly been Liberal but recently Tories.
https://members.parliament.uk/constituency/3417/election/397
 
Not in Scotland or where I live. Labour needs to learn to accommodate being a spent force in Scotland, and embrace the desire for national self determination in Scotland and Wales or face becoming increasingly irrelevant.
But a credible opposition would be well aware of this and have a strategy in hand, wouldn't they?
Another record benchmark for drug deaths in Scotland achieved by Nicola reported this week.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/drugs-deaths-in-scotland-soar-to-record-level

It is the largest number of drug-related deaths since records began in 1996 and the highest number of people dying as a result of drug misuse in Europe.
In 2019, the number of fatalities was 1,264 - three-and-a-half times the figure for England and Wales.
https://news.sky.com/story/drug-rel...levels-for-the-seventh-year-in-a-row-12367604
 
General elections: Whichever party has best predicted odds to remove Labour. Over the years that has mainly been Liberal but recently Tories.
https://members.parliament.uk/constituency/3417/election/397
Carefully avoiding what it is you actually stand for* and makes you and Brian the strangest bedfellows on pfm. What it is it that unites you politically?

*though six years of UKIP leafleting, YouTube videos and calls for Farage to receive a knighthood might be seen as overkill.
 
What is extreme about the observation that most people on the forum complain about the Tories and yet refuse to support the only party that has any chance of even being a credible opposition.
It extreme because it’s nonsense. For one thing many people have tactically voted for other parties precisely to increase the odds against the Tories.

But perhaps more pertinent is that it is those who have supported Brexit who are by far the biggest Tory enablers out there
 
It extreme because it’s nonsense. For one thing many people have tactically voted for other parties precisely to increase the odds against the Tories.

But perhaps more pertinent is that it is those who have supported Brexit who are by far the biggest Tory enablers out there

That would be Putin then.
 
That would be Putin then.
Brexit is his greatest foreign policy achievement, far more durable than Trump. Putin made his former ambassador to London a member of the Order of Alexander Nevsky and president of his Diplomatic Academy in recognition.

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“He smashed the Brits to the ground and it’ll be a long time before they get back up”.
 
@ks.234 , do you always ask people who they vote for ?
When it’s relevant then yes. As you are one of only two people to have said that anyone who does not vote Labour is a Tory enabler, the question of where that opinion is coming from is relevant. If those people are using the accusation did not vote for Corbyn, they are hypocrites. If they support the Tories, they’re trolls.

As you have decided to express your opinion, the question of whether you are a troll, a hypocrite, or a genuine Labour voter is very relevant.
 
@Cheese,
It’s an inquisition here these days from the gang. 100% on their side or an enemy. Once an enemy, everything you might post is minutely scrutinised for anything that can be seized upon.

Anyway...
What is extreme about the observation that most people on the forum complain about the Tories and yet refuse to support the only party that has any chance of even being a credible opposition.
Nothing extreme about that observation. It’s a running theme.

I think a lot of people on here do quite well under a Tory government so affectation of Labour ineptitude serves their purpose.

I do vote Labour even if it is against my own interest.
I think you may be spot on.

Carefully avoiding what it is you actually stand for* and makes you and Brian the strangest bedfellows on pfm. What it is it that unites you politically?

*though six years of UKIP leafleting, YouTube videos and calls for Farage to receive a knighthood might be seen as overkill.
Common sense, decency and a lack of hypocrisy are right up there. People don’t have to agree on everything to get along ok and not behave like an arse.

I notice you carefully avoided (totally ignored) the latest Sturgeon travesty despite your prolific posting record.

It extreme because it’s nonsense. For one thing many people have tactically voted for other parties precisely to increase the odds against the Tories.

But perhaps more pertinent is that it is those who have supported Brexit who are by far the biggest Tory enablers out there
Bold...I agree.

Your second paragraph...
No, they are not. The tory govt was enabled first by LibDems in 2010, then helped along by Scots in 2015 taking 40 seats from Labour, all the while helped along by the undermining of Miliband and Corbyn. Plenty here slagging off Labour for AS just as they are slagging off the party now. “Labour doesn’t stand for anything”...etc. All of this was well before 2019 and the switch to “enabling the tories in order to get brexit done”, mostly because people were sick to death of hearing about a referendum in 2016 and the stagnation in the country caused from that moment, much of it actually caused by hard remainers trying to overturn the result, even rejecting all chances of a soft brexit.
 
It’s always someone else’s fault. You won’t get a Labour government without actually voting for one- you can’t expect everyone else to do the work for you Brian.

Oh and this bit-

Common sense, decency and a lack of hypocrisy are right up there. People don’t have to agree on everything to get along ok and not behave like an arse.

Reminded me of,
“with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of fair play, I am ready for the fight” and we know how that ended up.
 
When it’s relevant then yes. As you are one of only two people to have said that anyone who does not vote Labour is a Tory enabler, the question of where that opinion is coming from is relevant. If those people are using the accusation did not vote for Corbyn, they are hypocrites. If they support the Tories, they’re trolls.

As you have decided to express your opinion, the question of whether you are a troll, a hypocrite, or a genuine Labour voter is very relevant.
It is never relevant. How people vote is a private matter. Someone may choose to say how they voted but it is entirely their choice and you should respect that.

Recently you have demanded people stop using your given name and others piled in to the effect your demand be respected. Well it is, isn’t it...

You should respect that how people vote is a private matter for them and is absolutely none of your business. You should stop making such demands.
 
mostly because people were sick to death of hearing about a referendum in 2016 and the stagnation in the country caused from that moment, much of it actually caused by hard remainers trying to overturn the result, even rejecting all chances of a soft brexit.
+1.
 
It’s always someone else’s fault. You won’t get a Labour government without actually voting for one- you can’t expect everyone else to do the work for you Brian.
I was replying to another member who was casting ‘fault’ in the wrong direction. If you don’t like the truth take it up with him for raising the point.
 
I was replying to another member who was casting ‘fault’ in the wrong direction. If you don’t like the truth take it up with him for raising the point.
Brian, I’m questioning your claims of , how did you describe it, ‘common sense, decency and a lack of hypocrisy’. Attacking others for something- not voting for the political party you yourself say you hardly ever vote for or more amusingly, eating a lot of greasy food while suggesting others do, looks rather like hypocrisy.
 
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