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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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But anyone questioning that is trying to ‘reverse a a democratic referendum’ and a ‘hard remainer’. Some forms of nationalism are more equal than others it seems.
It would never have become such a successful expression of nationalism if it hadn’t got so confused with ideas about democracy, and the attempt to reverse the referendum, justifiable in some ways given that it was bullshit, played a big role in that.

Anyway. Starmer’s a cock.
 
But people who voted for Boris Johnson cannot have done so in ignorance of the fact that he is a known devious liar. They must’ve voted for either because he’s a devious liar or in spite of him being a devious liar. Not sure what principle that underscores mind?
Or maybe because he was not Jeremy and he promised to 'get Brexit Done'.
 
It is an obvious statement, but it is equally obvious that people who choose to vote for either of the main parties have not done so because they ‘miss’ anything. To claim they miss the obvious is to suggest ignorance, which is just rude.

People who vote for other parties do so out of considered principle, not out of ignorance as you seem to be suggesting.
Whatever the reason or considered principle, anyone who does not vote Labour is enabling a Tory government.
 
if you voted for Johnson because he wasn’t Corbyn, or to get Brexit done, did you do so in ignorance of him being a devious liar?
The two reasons i stated were from someone who did exit poles for Labour in a not so well off part of Durham on Dec 2019 election day. Politicians tell lies, no surprise there.
 
That’s a bit extreme, is there anyone else on this forum who agrees with you?
What is extreme about the observation that most people on the forum complain about the Tories and yet refuse to support the only party that has any chance of even being a credible opposition.
 
Not in Scotland or where I live. Labour needs to learn to accommodate being a spent force in Scotland, and embrace the desire for national self determination in Scotland and Wales or face becoming increasingly irrelevant.
But a credible opposition would be well aware of this and have a strategy in hand, wouldn't they?
 
I think a lot of people on here do quite well under a Tory government so affectation of Labour ineptitude serves their purpose.

I do vote Labour even if it is against my own interest.
 
I don’t vote Labour, but I do live in a seat where even an expenses-fiddling inappropriate texter could get elected (though the replacement isn’t quite as bad). I’ll keep voting for PR as that is the only way to rid the country of Tory rule long-term. The penny will eventually drop with Labour, but it may take a couple more GE wipeouts first.
 
Labour's current strategy would appear to be solely based on the idea that, sooner or later, voters will find the Tories so incompetent/corrupt/generally shite that they will start voting Labour again. There are multiple problem with this approach, apart from its vacuity.

1) It relies on Government 'failing'. In the present Covid context, this essentially means wanting more people to die or become seriously ill, so Starmer and co can say 'we told you so'. It also means that if things go less badly, the Tories can gloss over their mistakes/corruption/graft by saying 'we made mistakes, of course, but it all worked out OK in the end.'

2) It mistakes England for the UK, as if all that was needed was for the Red Wall to turn red again, ignoring Labour's collapse in Scotland.

3) It gives people nothing to vote for. However badly the Tories are (eventually) seen to be, the result might be mass apathy and low turn-out at elections rather than a swing back to Labour. Alternatively, it might mean a large increase in votes for the Green Party, but not enough of an increase to result in a Tory defeat.
 
The two reasons i stated were from someone who did exit poles for Labour in a not so well off part of Durham on Dec 2019 election day. Politicians tell lies, no surprise there.
He was asking you about your voting choice not some abstract thoughts from someone else’s exit pole. Why so shy?
 
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