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Rega turntable speed

MusicMiles

MusicMiles

pfm Member
Got into an argument with a member of Steve Hoffman Forum in the thread titled
"Audiophiles Once Loved Direct Drive, Now They Seem To Hate It" about Rega having a .2% wow & flutter tolerance on their lower end turntables and I asked him to prove it. Another member chimed in backing up this claim and provided images from Michael Fremer's Rega tour videos of a couple years ago showing clip boards on the wall in a QC area clearly denoting tolerances going all the way up to .3%. I really couldn't argue with that and became PO'd with the person who posted it. Needless to say I had to eat my words.

I really love my Rega turntable, I think it sounds incredible and I've experienced none of the issues that Rega's turntables are widely accused of on internet forums but trying to take pride in it and defend its's worthiness among other turntables in the marketplace (Technics for one) is absolutely impossible since people are able easily able to drudge up any amount of muck on them they look for on the internet.

I'm not going to try to defends Rega's philosophy any more and I'm seriously considering not purchasing anymore Rega product in the future.

Roy Gandy and Paul Darwin can stick up for themselves.
 
They have had a record year with sales at record levels in lockdown, turnover approaching 18 million

In various CD player threads I see the Isis trouncing others

Never had any rega myself but they seem pretty popular
 
MusicMiles said:
I really love my Rega turntable, I think it sounds incredible and I've experienced none of the issues that Rega's turntables are widely accused of on internet forums but trying to take pride in it and defend its's worthiness among other turntables in the marketplace (Technics for one) is absolutely impossible since people are able easily able to drudge up any amount of muck on them they look for on the internet.
Click to expand...

If you're happy with your TT, why do you care what anyone else thinks?

Great company that makes great products that play great music.
 
<moderating>

I’ve renamed the thread as it read far too hostile to my eyes.

PS FWIW I consider Michael Fremer dropping a smartphone on a rotating platter to be all but irrelevant as a measurement. For example it bares no relationship to how a deck behaves under typical load/stylus drag. I’d never set a deck’s speed using a strobe unless it was playing a record.
 
Presumably the OP is referring to this:

Screenshot 2021-07-29 19.40.33

Don't confuse W&F with absolute speed tolerance, and it's the latter depicted in the graph.
Note the tolerance is wider for deviations slightly above 33.33 and this will account for the fractional change due to loading/drag of the cartridge. This will be more apparent on the lower priced decks with lighter platters and single belt drive.

All perfectly normal.
 
I had a P5 quite wowwy, had the subplatter skimmed in a lathe it had 2 high/ low points per rev that were a 2/10 of a mm out. Its just how they're made a by-product of thermal cycling in the moulding process.

The metal subs will be perfect.
 
Robert said:
Note the tolerance is wider for deviations slightly above 33.33 and this will account for the fractional loading of the cartridge.
Click to expand...

Cartridge load/drag is pretty significant IMO. It is fascinating to contrast the spin-down of a non-belt-drive deck (direct drive, idler etc) with the arm cued vs. playing a record. Huge difference in time. It really does act as a brake. Similarly when adjusting speed with a strobe, it is visible even on high-torque decks like a TD-124, Garrard, various direct drive etc. I’d pretty much guarantee any belt drive deck (which tend to have far lower-torque motors) set unloaded for a perfect 33.3rpm will be running slow when you actually play a record. It can’t not be.
 
I had 2 Regas, they both played slightly fast. My Linn LP12 played slow ( outrageous, as it was ten times price of the Regas! ) I have perfect-pitch hearing so I stick with DD. There’s a nicer warmth to belt though but it’s a personal thing, I have sacrificed that to satisfy my affliction….lol!
 
What is this thread about really? I've had and heard a whole bunch of Rega tables and none of them had what I would describe as a speed problem. Yes, the better ones are better but the P1 plays records just dandy. Is it perfect? No. Is it expensive? Also no.

I reckon a mid priced Rega has speed stability at least as good as a basic LP12, probably better. Especially if the Linn is old, tired and not set up spot on.

So getting a bit of vinyl to rotate perfectly is tricky. Who knew? Still sounds nicer than a lot of pure, perfect drudgital so I'm happy to have it. Vinyl sales are up, turntable sales are up, seems a lot of people are buying with their ears and not a strobe.
 
Tony L said:
Cartridge load/drag is pretty significant IMO. It is fascinating to contrast the spin-down of a non-belt-drive deck (direct drive, idler etc) with the arm cued vs. playing a record. Huge difference in time. It really does act as a brake. Similarly when adjusting speed with a strobe, it is visible even on high-torque decks like a TD-124, Garrard, various direct drive etc. I’d pretty much guarantee any belt drive deck (which tend to have far lower-torque motors) set unloaded for a perfect 33.3rpm will be running slow when you actually play a record. It can’t not be.
Click to expand...
Tony, stylus drag on a driven turntable is insignificant. The rotating mass and the fact that it’s being driven totally overcomes the minute drag caused by the stylus.
 
I'd have thought due to all the various tracking weights and stylus profiles, that stylus drag has to be negligible or verging on insignificant by default.
 
matt j said:
I'd have thought due to all the various tracking weights and stylus profiles, that stylus drag has to be negligible or verging on insignificant by default.
Click to expand...

I would think it significant myself. And it's dynamic which is a further problem.
 
Run down time isn't representative of stylus drag, as Andrew says, it's dwarfed by bearing oil shear in all but those run on sewing machine oil.

Try dropping your bearing oil down 10w and see the difference. I use about 2800 cwt silicon in mine, loads of drag, even dwarfs motor cogging.
 
Mr Pig said:
I would think it significant myself. And it's dynamic which is a further problem.
Click to expand...

How can it be significant?

No maker of a TT would be able to provide a constant speed stability with the plethora of carts on the market, they'd have to caveat any performance figures with a get out of jail card like "performance figures measured with xyz cartridge, performance may vary if others used" basically restricting you to one single cart if you want to achieve the stated performance of the deck.

I have no problem assuming that the speed may alter for the split second that the stylus hits the groove, but once the flywheel effect and torque of the motor have overcome it then it has to be negligible.
 
I would think stylus drag can be calculated, no? Not by me, but wouldn't it be basically the average friction created by the stylus vs the mass of the platter and torque of the motor?
 
Robert said:
Presumably the OP is referring to this:

Screenshot 2021-07-29 19.40.33

Don't confuse W&F with absolute speed tolerance, and it's the latter depicted in the graph.
Note the tolerance is wider for deviations slightly above 33.33 and this will account for the fractional change due to loading/drag of the cartridge. This will be more apparent on the lower priced decks with lighter platters and single belt drive.

All perfectly normal.
Click to expand...

looks like OP can go back and demand an apology :)
 
Bob Edwards said:
I would think stylus drag can be calculated, no? Not by me, but wouldn't it be basically the average friction created by the stylus vs the mass of the platter and torque of the motor?
Click to expand...

Absolutely, and it has been. Look at Rega’s chart posted upthread, spot where the ‘green zone’ is in relation to 33.333 rpm. It clearly factors-in operating load. It is also likely significant that the cheaper decks, e.g. the P1, have a higher acceptable upper range (but not lower) as they’ll likely be partnered with cruder heavier tracking carts.

PS I don’t know enough about current Rega decks to know for sure, but looking at the chart my guess is the RP10 either has a higher torque motor or some electrical load-sensing that will keep it in the tiny green zone in use.
 
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