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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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ks.234 said:
Even on pfm, if we took away your own clear and consistent condemnation of Tommy Robinson, how the word count against Robinson v Corbyn would stack up?
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Interesting point, though I don’t think there is any real equivalence here. Yaxley Lennon is a convicted violent football thug and far-right agitator/inciter of racial hatred, Corbyn was the leader of the so called main opposition party. It is legitimate to criticise the obvious failings of the latter whilst giving zero credibility to fringe-fascist thugs such as the former as they have never been a serious political contender. There is a strong argument for not even giving them the oxygen of publicity (I tend to dig in as I need to make the case that this is a firmly anti-fascist/anti-racist website - I want there to be no ambiguity about that at all).
 
Tony L said:
Interesting point, though I don’t think there is any real equivalence here. Yaxley Lennon is a convicted violent football thug and far-right agitator/inciter of racial hatred, Corbyn was the leader of the so called main opposition party. It is legitimate to criticise the obvious failings of the latter whilst giving zero credibility to fringe-fascist thugs such as the former as they have never been a serious political contender. There is a strong argument for not even giving them the oxygen of publicity (I tend to dig in as I need to make the case that this is a firmly anti-fascist/anti-racist website - I want there to be no ambiguity about that at all).
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Your right about equivalence though historically there do seem parallels with the hatred towards Luxemburg for her words and beliefs and her subsequent torture, assassination and public dumping of her body compared with treatment of Hitler after his very real world attempted putsch.

In a world that is careering towards a right wing state of uncertain outcome, the historic comparisons are worth considering
 
Trying to imagine a universe in which Vince Cable Talks Pints With Jeremy Corbyn and I can't.


Lots of liberals, remainers, Labour right wingers and "decent Tories" chose the current mess knowingly rather than risk any change to the system that keeps them in work and that's something that their supporters haven't really processed yet.
 
Tony L said:
FWIW I’m a liberal and no way in hell would I have a pint with a racist/fascist on a far-right fake-news channel. Cable should be utterly ashamed. I’d boot him out of the party if I was Davy. It’s a repeat of Corbyn/Hoey etc.
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Davey’s voting record suggests he has more in common with the GB News agenda than challenging it. Difficult to imagine Cable having a pint with Farage without running it past LD hierarchy first
 
Tony L said:
FWIW I’m a liberal and no way in hell would I have a pint with a racist/fascist on a far-right fake-news channel. Cable should be utterly ashamed. I’d boot him out of the party if I was Davy. It’s a repeat of Corbyn/Hoey etc.
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It's not a repeat of Corbyn anything. It's a repeat of every liberal skirmish with the right ever: it's theatre, and they all go back to being the best of pals once the real danger has been dealt with.
 
Corbyn allowed his MPs (Hoey, Stewart, Mann and the rest of them) to align politically with Farage’s far-right nationalist Brexit policy. To actively share platforms with the far-right of UKIP etc. I’d argue that was way, way worse than what the idiot Cable did. By saying that no way will I defend the Lib Dems for similarly endorsing fascism. Screw them. These parties are of no use to me.
 
Seanm said:
it's theatre, and they all go back to being the best of pals once the real danger has been dealt with.
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I think you're just describing parliament there Sean tbh. Most MPs aren't seething with hatred towards their colleagues in the other parties (just colleagues in their own parties haha) - it seems to be mostly just the party supporters who get all bent out of shape.
 
paulfromcamden said:
I think you're just describing parliament there Sean tbh. Most MPs aren't seething with hatred towards their colleagues in the other parties (just colleagues in their own parties haha) - it seems to be mostly just the party supporters who get all bent out of shape.
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Parliament, pundits, Important People generally: it's all one big Spectator Garden Party to them, in distinction not just to party supporters but supporters of causes more broadly. People's Vote is the paradigmatic case here: the people who marched were largely sincere, passionate people who genuinely believed in the Remain cause, and the people who led them were...not. The latter got everything they wanted, the former got the exact opposite of what they were promised. I'd want to see a few heads on sticks myself but no one seems to be that angry - which is why I say they haven't fully processed what was done to them.
 
Seanm said:
Trying to imagine a universe in which Vince Cable Talks Pints With Jeremy Corbyn and I can't.


Lots of liberals, remainers, Labour right wingers and "decent Tories" chose the current mess knowingly rather than risk any change to the system that keeps them in work and that's something that their supporters haven't really processed yet.
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Never mind Cable's dodgy politics, it's his drinking lager and not wearing a tie which concerns me more.

I also hate to see the bullfrog revelling in his own show like that with his old pretend adversaries.
 
Seanm said:
Parliament, pundits, Important People generally: it's all one big Spectator Garden Party to them, in distinction not just to party supporters but supporters of causes more broadly. People's Vote is the paradigmatic case here: the people who marched were largely sincere, passionate people who genuinely believed in the Remain cause, and the people who led them were...not. The latter got everything they wanted, the former got the exact opposite of what they were promised. I'd want to see a few heads on sticks myself but no one seems to be that angry - which is why I say they haven't fully processed what was done to them.
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‘Spectator Garden Party’ it does conjure up a scene of depravity by Heironimus Bosch. Gove with his proboscis in a heap.
 
Seanm said:
Trying to imagine a universe in which Vince Cable Talks Pints With Jeremy Corbyn and I can't.


Lots of liberals, remainers, Labour right wingers and "decent Tories" chose the current mess knowingly rather than risk any change to the system that keeps them in work and that's something that their supporters haven't really processed yet.
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Has Nigel had ‘Lord’ Mann on yet? It’s only a matter of time.
 
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Yes, we all know the party has moved to the right.

What is needed is a left leaning group of Labour MPs to form a new party, they can’t all be raving right wingers. I wonder who they could be? :D:D
 
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