Colin Barron
pfm Member
Did you predict Nissan was leaving Washington?
Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIII
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TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Let’s establish the size of the Johnson -tax payer subsidy, that’ll tell us. The biggest shareholder by a mile is Renault. They’ll make a cold eyed decision about profitability and if Johnson fattens the bottom line for them, I’m sure Sunderland’s future is secure.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
Probably two or three net weekly red bus EU subsidies.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
We’ve seen British manufacturing money sumps before, they wither on the vine with closure usually announced on a Friday night during a holiday. I really hope Sunderland doesn’t go the same way
Colin Barron
pfm Member
There is always the possibility that Nissan will move or battery cars will be obsolete in the medium term but that is better than the certainty of a £200 million net red bus leaving our shores every week to subsidise our competitors.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Except that is nonsense. It bought us frictionless access to a huge market and large economy of scale for administration and control of our trade with it. As well as smoother and increased access to Europe for our citizens with reduced costs to boot. The costs of Brexit are already way ahead of 40 years of that and for nothing. The higher staffing and access budget will only increase - there isn't and never was an economic case. You have an idea of 'saving' money that doesn't stand the mildest scrutiny.
Perhaps if you only care about Nissan Sunderland. Do you work there ?
We all know there aren't enough red buses for the rest of the UK.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
Hugh brought up the subject of Chinese flags at Nissan.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
A low cost frictionless access to Europe was not on offer, it had evolved from that into EU law having primacy over national law.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
I am surprised this argument is still rumbling on five years after the referendum. Most people who voted Leave did so because they saw the EU as an unnecessary layer of supranational government and would have voted in the same way regardless for the red bus.
In the aftermath of the referendum, we were told London’s financial centre would decamp to a different European city and that there would be mass brawls in the streets as medicine and food ran out which plainly hasn’t been the case. The reality is since we left in Jan 20, we haven’t been able to disentangle the effects of Brexit from the dominant force and disruption caused by the effects of COVID.
It’s tempting to rewind to the halcyon days of the summer of 2019 when Teresa May came to Parliament offering a nice soft Brexit. The fact that JRM and the ERG hated it should have told the oppostion it was the best deal on offer and with an unpopular May hanging on by a thin majority, they could have influenced government policy much more. Alas, Corbyns eyes lit up when he glimpsed power and the rest is history.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
This is simply not true. Low cost frictionless access was still offered by the EU after the Leave vote, in the shape of continued membership of the Single Market. The ideologues of ERG and the rest of the Tory right wing removed that option from the table and a weak PM obliged them (Lancaster House speech).
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Colin Barron
pfm Member
ff1d1l
pfm Member
One an incredibly stupid red line and the other a malevolent act of self harm.
tonerei
pfm Member
It is a valid interpretation of events and probably has a lot of truths. Your highlighted comment is very true I think. Labour and Tory voters delivered the Brexit result.
There could never be a full meeting of minds with Tory moderates, Liberals and the two sides of Labour. One would think politicians could have seized the moment given the stakes but ultimately UK politics is polarized maybe into something like 40% right wing 40% left and 20% in the middle.
There were attempts by disaffected Tories and Labour ministers but the two tribes mainly stuck in their bunkers.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
I warned people on the Remain side that whoever came after May would be worse and deliver a much harder Brexit. I even joined the Conservative party so I could vote for anybody other than Gove and Johnson.
BTW I am no fan of May but as an aside I think she would have better handled the pandemic too.
BTW I am no fan of May but as an aside I think she would have better handled the pandemic too.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
That's just your opinion. The UK was offered a menu of options ranging from continued Single Market/EEA membership to Hard Brexit, and chose Hard Brexit for ideological and internal political party reasons.
As for mentality, the "with us or against us mentality" has been mostly visible on the Brexit side, with Brexiters openly hoping or even predicting Brexit would trigger the implosion of the EU.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Absolutely this. A 52/48 victory was emphatically not a mandate for a hard Brexit. You could say that it was a mandate for a semi-detached withdrawal, like the EEA, as there was clearly no collective view for either extreme. So where did TM's red lines come from? Who took back control there, then?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
“We do want you to collapse but would you mind giving us a trade deal?” It doesn’t appear that Johnson has any bargaining chips left apart from severe self-harm and faux-Churchill patriotic blather for the domestic market. The ongoing British payments to the EU budget get us some nice shiny EU stickers on the missionary work they’re still conducting on Brexit Island.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Ormig juice is better, if you’re so inclined.
Mix with orange.- Status