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Which idler?

Ta for all that. I looked a Lenco heaven, but it assumes a level of knowledge I don’t have yet.
 
If you go for a 75 give a shout out, I have some of the most useful Lenco Heaven threads bookmarked and can dig them out
 
Frizzy said:
Very interesting posts, seems like lenco is the future, never quite sure as the Lenco bug seems a more recent trend than the garrard hobbyists, I assume in part due to rising cost of thorens and Garrard.
Did dual do idlers?
This project will have to fit round funds and health so long term, I will look out for a unmolested one and go from there, I assume the 75 is the one to go for?
Click to expand...

I have a 1229 with an AT33 mono system and it's a very nice thing on it's own.
It's comfortable when you're busy in the house and the arm is getting back to it's rest automatically after the record instead of giving you the 'thud-thud-thud' until you march off to care for it.
But while the arm is better than it looks, the manual automatic per se makes it impossible to aim very high in an audiophile way.
Still it's a very nice deck and does not need to hide from many of todays offers.

The Lenco however, dispite it's really very basic arm outperforms it clearly..it's very obvious.
Almost a paradoxon to the importance of arms, as by logic it seems impossible.
The arm is a serious let-down, and still it sounds quite a good deck from the start.
Sonically, Dual is no competition..
There's something magic about the Lenco drive itself that sets it so far ahead.

Also the hs of the original Lenco arm is so weak, it seems to wobble around in a near-loose manner at the lightest touch..and it's a plain miracle how the deck can still sound that good.

In many ways contradicting what I thought I knew about decks, I have huge respect for it.

Put a good arm on it & you can only guess how far it goes.
 
Frizzy said:
Ta for all that. I looked a Lenco heaven, but it assumes a level of knowledge I don’t have yet.
Click to expand...
Actually 'Lenco Heaven' just requires an ability to read and patience, it has sections which cover every aspect of Lenco T/Tables, from the history, restoration of 'standard' models, to extremely skillfull 'builds' by members using the basic Lenco 'drive' parts.
It is also a very helpful forum where even my 'dumbest' questions have been answered politely.
Regards
Mike Kelshaw
 
I have a highly modified GL75 from Ant of BTE Designs similar to Type 2-

https://bte-designs.weebly.com/bte-designs-type-1-and-2-lenco-gl75s.html

I use this with a 774 arm, and formerly a Benz Gullwing SLR (until I trashed it.☹️)

Also have a twin-tier slate plinth for a 401- I sold the motor unit as I was very fortunate to pick up a new old stock unit, which I have yet to service and install. I serviced the old unit myself, never had any problems with rumble. I’ve bought a Terminator arm to use with it, when I get time!

Both are great decks, and a significant improvement was had by the use of a Longdog Audio turntable power supply, specifically made for AC idler decks.
 
Well, just for balance the best sounding Lenco I’ve built was a Nantais /PTP clone. Almost 2 sheets of birch ply/ MDF sandwich it needed 2 to move it. It was silent though. A little more restrained Mu25 beech ply with Corian top

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28422606...d=link&campid=5338728743&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

A commission, I wasn’t convinced by the Dc motor, but that was the spec.
I’ve now bought LDA controller and suspect it’d solve lots of speed/ noise issues with lenco, when I get roundtuit.

On motors, one of the reasons I’ve got a room full it takes a few to find a quiet one. Some of them no matter how much careful servicing they’re not. Another reason I’m not keen on skeletal open designs.

YMMV :cool:
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
I have one of Nigel's speed controller boards from Lenco Heaven in the workshop; a project that needs stating. I have sorted out the BOM & collected together all of the posts from Lenco Heaven. I have no idea if the controller results in an improvement to the sound.
 
I’m amazingly down to 3 turntables now;
- vintage LP12 with Sole sub chassis
- a beautiful mint L70 that I bought to modify but I just couldn’t do it, it looks too nice and the earlier arm, while weird, works well
- TD124 that I have never even listened to yet!

I have had a few 75/78s through the years - a good service and a decent arm to replace the rubbish it comes with and they’re great. I kept going back the the LP12 but it’s different rather than better.
 
divedeepdog said:
On motors, one of the reasons I’ve got a room full it takes a few to find a quiet one.
Click to expand...

One could argue that is about the only weakness of the Lenco design. My suspicion/theory is it doesn’t take a huge amount of force (e.g. a drop in transit) to very slightly bend the huge rotor/cone assembly and once slightly out of balance it will never be a quiet motor whatever you do to it.

Dowser said:
- a beautiful mint L70 that I bought to modify but I just couldn’t do it, it looks too nice and the earlier arm, while weird, works well
Click to expand...

2092567191_f5dca62669_c.jpg


I’ve still got this one boxed-up in storage, I’m pretty sure I’ve still got the arm too. As is so often the case with me I had two, the other was stock, this one nicely refinished. It’s a very nice example but I have no context for it as just got so indecisive about what route to take so I moved onto a 301 and 124. Far easier to deal with as restoration suits my mindset far more than modification. I should really move it on at some point, but it’s a nice old deck. It has the birth month/year as me! Very quiet too.
 
I found that the noise on mine, was cured by making sure that the underside of the platter was clean & replacing the idler wheel; some of the Lencos (like my 88), were fitted with the harder plastic wheels rather that the softer rubber ones & all of these components are readily available.
 
Yes, the plastic idler wheels are awful. Mine has the final ‘five hole’ type which is very quiet. The L70 (and I think ‘88) are unusual in that the underside of the platter including the drive path is painted (a light green IIRC), so a little harder to clean as you don’t want to lift the paint.

Getting everything absolutely spotless in an idler deck is essential IMO. The TD-124 especially as any dust/belt-shed in the transmission translates to noise. If it doesn’t look surgical-grade clean it is never going to be right.

23620750244_447d283cb6_b.jpg


Anything less than that = noise!
 
That’s a real beauty and you are 100% correct to keep it stock IMO. If you like jazz or classical I’d actually be inclined to set it up as a dedicated mono deck. Stick a DL-102 in it, something like that.
 
Of those three I wouldnt bother with the LP12 (I owned one for 20 years, spent a fortune on upgrades, sold it getting on for 15 years ago, initially for a Garrard 401, then a Townshend Rock Reference, and never looked back). If you are used to an idler, the LP12 can sound a bit lacking in energy.

L70 is a nice thing on its own but if going Lenco I would go for one of the motor units (88 or 99) and save all the faffing about - nice plinth, upgrade the bearing, add a regenerating power supply like the Longdog one I use, a decent arm, job done - hard to beat actually, certainly for £££ spent. No need to fill holes and paint, or disassemble.

I've had lots of idlers - Garrards, Thorens, Lencos, Duals - and modded all except Duals. Notwithstanding Tony L's points about getting them properly mechanically fettled, assuming you are doing to be doing work on it anyway then for me the TD124 come out on top, even over a moddedd Lenco in my view. The Garrards are good in many many ways but typically lack that last bit of subtlety you can get out of a TD124, thanks (I believe) to the short belt driving the idler that helps lower the noise floor. The EMTs are excellent of course but don't really have the same options out or ecosystem out there as the TD124 to really take them to the next level.

Mine is pictured below:
  • Schopper 5kg platter and upgraded bearing
  • Motor rebuilt by Martin Bastin
  • Hanze motor isolation spring set
  • Stepper pulley bushes renewed by Loricraft
  • Retrotone machined upper platter replacing original pressed one
  • Panzerholz core plinth wrapped in one layer of solid sapele (all built up the weight is over 60kg)
  • Armboards solid Panzerholz , veneered with walnut
  • Glanz MH-104s and MH124S 10 and 12in arms
  • Ikeda tonearm cables, also Ikeda stabilizers under the arm boards replacing the arm pillar retaining nuts
  • Townshend Seismic Pods
  • Longdog two speed regenerating PSU with voltage drop
I've had it well over 10 years now so the above was done progressively over a long time. It's very quiet and very subtle, not just for an idler but for any TT, but of course has an idler's feeling of drive and musicality. I have heard (indeed owned) lots of other TTs from high-mass belt drive to three-motor AN/Voyd - and can't imagine replacing it with any of them.

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montesquieu said:
Retrotone machined upper platter replacing original pressed one
Click to expand...

How do you like this/think it compares to the original sonically? I’ve looked at it with some interest. I actually have the Swissonor top platter on mine as my original isn’t as flat as it should be. The Swissonor has some run-out (only a fraction of a mm) which triggers me to some degree, but it sounds great and is near enough (it does irritate me when expensive boutique kit isn’t perfect though!). I’ve not seen much if any comment anywhere on the Retrotone which surprises me.
 
I’ve got Panzer skeletal plinth for 401, probably time to revisit but last time I tried it I thought it very similar to slate. Very clean etched bass, but for me lacked emotion.
I built a matching Mu25 plinth for 301 (same fella as Lenco) which is my favourite so far. Personal choice at this level, I’m lucky enough to be able to build myself, and have them side by side with a matching pair of arms.
 
Tony L said:
How do you like this/think it compares to the original sonically? I’ve looked at it with some interest. I actually have the Swissonor top platter on mine as my original isn’t as flat as it should be. The Swissonor has some run-out (only a fraction of a mm) which triggers me to some degree, but it sounds great and is near enough (it does irritate me when expensive boutique kit isn’t perfect though!). I’ve not seen much if any comment anywhere on the Retrotone which surprises me.
Click to expand...

I resisted getting one, as my original pressed alloy platter is pretty straight (the pics actually show the original), but I'd done more or less everything else I could think of and was curious. However I am really glad I went for it - it's really beautifully done, machined from a solid billet of aluminium, a lovely thing to look at and handle, beautifully finished and of course straight as a die.

It's much heavier than the original and also a mm or two thicker, which can be useful with some tonearms, and rings a lot less. I use it with the Retrotone cork inter-mat which damps any potential ringing (which is less anyway than with the original pressed platter). The overall result is a greater sense of stability in pitch, image and soundstage clarity, which are TD124 strengths anyway especially with the Schopper platter, but reinforced further.

One handy thing is that used with the centre that comes with it, it makes mat/stabiliser experimentation much easier, though of course the original mat and pop up centre can also be fitted.
 
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