Del monaco
Del Monaco
He’s now confirmed it is the Red K Signature. Having been ill his memory is often sketchy.
Help to identify an early Koetsu Rosewood for me…
- Thread starter Del monaco
- Start date
runforfree69
Spinning vinyl
Looks like my Red Signature which a platinum, it has same square body and wood finish ie not shiny lacquered and serial no 8xxx which is 2005. I'm in for retip at NW Analogue. Sound deteriorated and I sent it off to Peak hifi which showed wear beyond use under the microscope ... big "cats eyes" being the giveaway. Also a dealer for Koetsu they recommended a £1900 rebuild which is basically a new cartridge which was until not long ago £6k for signature platinum. The old body would be retained in rebuild which is in great condition but I thought I'd try retip first. Don't see any reason not to expect around £1000 for your one.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
Thanks. I thought that would be about right. He was quoted the same by Koetso. £600 at Goldring. I suspect around £200 for a retip.I’ll speak with him tomorrow.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Sugano son rather than San. Diehards consider his Ks don't have his father's lush magic but I rather think he brought Ks into the modern world, so to speak, without sacrificing any magic at all. The Sig. Platinum is a different beast to the Red T and K Sig.
That actually sounds pretty good, assuming the dealer handles everything. I have read that totally new guts to an existing housing is about half the r.r.p. on all Ks. £6 for one? I know the stone-bodied ones are £8+ and Urushis above £4 now but didn't realise the Sig. Platinum was that high.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
I've no idea, but wouldn't think more than £500 to £650 as it'll need a complete refurb., I guess and I'm not aware of a collectors' value on old Ks. Just a guess, mind. Ebay will determine, and as it's cream-crackered, can be advertised as such with less hassle of complaints etc. Working Black Gs go for around £600 and the Red K Sig's at £1250 or so. I'm prob. out of date though, as prices have risen these last few years.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
Cheers Mike. Very helpful.
runforfree69
Spinning vinyl
Yes, heard that reported and for a long time I've wished to hear one of fathers cartridges for myself. I wonder if that's a concious tuning decision by the son or something else. The Red Sig Platinum is lower output at 0.3mv, body is not as lacquered as Rosewood models and duller in comparison. To me it sounds a good bit superior to the Urushi Gold I heard when auditioning, the platinum I think brings speed and detail a bit like silver over copper but doesn't thin the sound which can happen with silver. Also more authority and composer, I could clearly tell it was a step up and I'm hoping it comes back singing with new FG stylus ... I'm a bit nervous.
Dealer does all handling giving back a virtually new cartridge or as they explained still yours with the aged body which may be better than a new one, a new box too as I misplaced the original which was almost an immediate clincher for going ahead. Considering new retail getting one at under £2k in any condition would be a good buy in comparison to brand new. Urushi's I think are £1600 rebuild.
Dealer does all handling giving back a virtually new cartridge or as they explained still yours with the aged body which may be better than a new one, a new box too as I misplaced the original which was almost an immediate clincher for going ahead. Considering new retail getting one at under £2k in any condition would be a good buy in comparison to brand new. Urushi's I think are £1600 rebuild.
I have an early rosewood signature which has the early long body i sent it back to koetsu and was lucky that they had parts that the father had built, i believe there are no more available i paid 1200 Singapore dollars for the rebuild.I sent an onyx(stone body) for rebuild with the platinum and diamond upgrade and that was 3000sd which is less than half the cost of a new one from ablsolute sounds(also cheaper than what they would charge for sending it back
Mike Reed
pfm Member
It should, too, if only going on price.
. The stone bodied Ks are all platinum too. The acknowledged best of the Urushi range is the Vermillion; it's also the only different one in having two sets of coils as opposed to one in the rest. It also has a lower output (0.2 or 0.2.92 [ American or Euro. standard measurement]). Maybe not as pretty as some but..........Ks, like many Jap. cart's, have their output measured at 3.57 (????) cms/sec as opposed to 5 cms/sec for European cart's. You simply multiply the lower figure by 1.46 to get the higher one.
Despite having the best cart. I've had/heard (Proteus), I still hanker after a Coralstone or similar, but would need a massier arm than my current ones. Now if I could trade up my Vermillion......... (and fork out megabucks for a 20+g mass arm)
runforfree69
Spinning vinyl
I did hear an Onyx many years ago and it was stunning, got me into Koetsu. Personally I love the look of the Vermillion, not a fan of speckled finishes and I didn't know of it's higher specification with dual coils unlike other Urushi's. Koetsu line, history and cartridges are so interesting but quite hard to follow and identifying an older one can be difficult.
The output does come over pretty similar to a Benz Ebony I had at the same time which is 0.28mv, wasn't aware about the diff' Japanese spec and Koetsu UK don't specifics/sec number. I'd like to own any stone body, only way would be sourcing a cheap one for Koetsu rebuild perhaps in the future but so many I've seen have cracks in the stone.
I'd recommend the FR tonearms, built so well that buying a faulty one would be less likely ... I've a 64s and it's a popular companion and perfect for Koetsu as well as working well with some but not all low/mid compliance cartridges too with the right headshell and despite the resonant frequency calculation indicating they shouldn't. Like to hear a Proteus, had the opportunity when I had a suitable AN Japan SUT I was using for SPU & AN cartridges but alas no longer after going in the Koetsu direction and happy with Allnic amps now.
@artist $3000 for a stone body rebuild at Koetsu is great value in the context of the new price, something great too about giving new life to your own cartridge in the best way possible. Fabulous you could have your long bodied original overhauled, it'll be very special now. Can only imagine the waiting period which is 6 weeks I'm told would be a very long 6 weeks, the anticipation would be too much.
The output does come over pretty similar to a Benz Ebony I had at the same time which is 0.28mv, wasn't aware about the diff' Japanese spec and Koetsu UK don't specifics/sec number. I'd like to own any stone body, only way would be sourcing a cheap one for Koetsu rebuild perhaps in the future but so many I've seen have cracks in the stone.
I'd recommend the FR tonearms, built so well that buying a faulty one would be less likely ... I've a 64s and it's a popular companion and perfect for Koetsu as well as working well with some but not all low/mid compliance cartridges too with the right headshell and despite the resonant frequency calculation indicating they shouldn't. Like to hear a Proteus, had the opportunity when I had a suitable AN Japan SUT I was using for SPU & AN cartridges but alas no longer after going in the Koetsu direction and happy with Allnic amps now.
@artist $3000 for a stone body rebuild at Koetsu is great value in the context of the new price, something great too about giving new life to your own cartridge in the best way possible. Fabulous you could have your long bodied original overhauled, it'll be very special now. Can only imagine the waiting period which is 6 weeks I'm told would be a very long 6 weeks, the anticipation would be too much.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
The chalk 'n' cheese approach to cart's. Mine too !