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Speaker Recommendations, please

G

GruntPuppy

pfm Member
It looks like my speakers, that would probably have been fine in my previous listening room, are no good in my current listening area. With that in mind, can I get some recommendations please?

My room is roughly 12' x 10', I prefer floorstanding speakers, with a budget of £1000 second hand would be preferable to keep bang per buck as high as possible, are there any recommendations? My amplification is solid state with 250wpc at 8 ohms on tap (and I have 2 of them if necessary!), so valve friendly speakers are not needed. Because of the nature of my preamp solutions which require subs to give fuller bass are acceptable. The preamp also has dirac live built in.

If I get totally desperate I still have a pair of TJL 3w's in reserve, but I'd like to try something new.
 
Given the size of your room, I would go with a single 6 or 6 1/2 inch woofer to avoid any bass booming.
Proac Response would be on my shopping list but it all depends on your preferences. The D18 would be nice but maybe overpriced.
 
the Dirac is of no help? Just curious since I discovered EQ of necessity during COVID after years of audiophile purism.
 
brab said:
the Dirac is of no help? Just curious since I discovered EQ of necessity during COVID after years of audiophile purism.
Click to expand...

Dirac is good, but only goes so far. It's not going to change the fact that these speakers really need a bigger room to work to best effect.
 
Up the budget a bit if you can and snap up the Neat Ultimatum XLS’s in the classifieds. Not floorstanders but more than plenty for your room size.
 
Unless you are a PMC hater, (they do attract marmite opinions) then the FB1i may suit you?
They are well within your budget.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PMC-FB1-...d=link&campid=5338728743&toolid=20001&mkevt=1


Specifications -

Crossover Frequency:2kHz

Dimensions:H 1000mm 39.37" +Plinth W 200mm 7.87" +Plinth D 300mm 11.81" +Plinth

Drive Units:LF PMC Doped 170mm cast Alloy Chassis

HF 27mm SONOLEX Soft dome Ferro-fluid cooled

Effective ATL™ Length:3m 9.8ft

Frequency Response:28Hz-25kHz

Impedance:8 Ohms

Input Connectors:2 pairs 4mm sockets (Bi-Wire or Bi-Amp)

Recommended Amp Power:40-300W

Weight:18.0kg 39.60lbs
 
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Big Tabs said:
Unless you are a PMC hater, (they do attract marmite opinions) then the FB1i may suit you?
They are well within your budget.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PMC-FB1-...d=link&campid=5338728743&toolid=20001&mkevt=1


Specifications -

Crossover Frequency:2kHz

Dimensions:H 1000mm 39.37" +Plinth W 200mm 7.87" +Plinth D 300mm 11.81" +Plinth

Drive Units:LF PMC Doped 170mm cast Alloy Chassis

HF 27mm SONOLEX Soft dome Ferro-fluid cooled

Effective ATL™ Length:3m 9.8ft

Frequency Response:28Hz-25kHz

Impedance:8 Ohms

Input Connectors:2 pairs 4mm sockets (Bi-Wire or Bi-Amp)

Recommended Amp Power:40-300W

Weight:18.0kg 39.60lbs
Click to expand...

Well, the OP was looking for loudspeaker advice, not on how to throw money out the window...
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
You say solutions which include subs are welcome. I assume you budgeted for the subs in addition to the £1000 for the speakers?

I won't even go in to possible speaker choices as I lack the knowledge and there are just too many possible variables/suggestions based on personal preferences ... so I leave this to others but it would likely help to mention how loud you listen and what is important soundwise ...

Your forum name, choice of amps and the mention of subs leads me to believe you err on the side of Orchestral or Rock genres but I could be wrong.
 
Any other requirements? Do you have particular aesthetic or decorative preferences? Do the speakers have to work close to or right against a wall, or fit in around anything else?

When you say the the speakers are 'no good' in the room do you mean there's bass boom? Are you forced to sit too close? Do they just look too big?
 
Proac are nice and seem to respond to a powerful amplifier. The choice is huge at your budget. I like the i version hf units in PMC speakers,
Neat SX3i? Neat don’t seem to have many fans but I like them very much, put together well, finished off nicely and fun.
Most if not all floor standers under 1k are not up to the level of similarly priced stand mounts in my opinion, the build quality being a obvious one and sometimes you can hear the enclosures which Ruins the experience ymmv.
Tom60300 said:
Well, the OP was looking for loudspeaker advice, not on how to throw money out the window...
Click to expand...
Sorry if my reply looks short, crap morning....
 
GruntPuppy said:
Dirac is good, but only goes so far. It's not going to change the fact that these speakers really need a bigger room to work to best effect.
Click to expand...

Large speakers in small rooms take up a lot of space but can play louder (i.e. reproduce transients cleanly which is 100% a good thing) and, usually, extend lower in frequency. The latter is good in terms of accuracy but if the room response is not controlled it will boom and this boom will normally be louder with speakers that extend deeper. Competently and fairly lightly using DSP systems like Dirac on the mains can reduce some of the room boom and is 100% a good thing. Attempting to do too much with DSP on the mains however can sound poor because some aspects of a poor room response cannot be addressed by equalising the mains (it can by distributing speakers around the room but only for frequencies below 80 Hz or so).

If you opt to do nothing about room boom then reducing the output at low frequencies can make it a bit less objectionable. A small sealed speaker rolling off at 100 Hz or so could achieve this but it obviously depends on the room, speaker and listening locations. A larger speaker with the equivalent high pass filter applied will do exactly the same in terms of room boom but will also be able to reproduce transients more cleanly hence making it better.

Conclusion: big speakers are better than small speakers in small rooms if you control the room response. If you don't control the room response then whether a big speaker is better than a small will depend on whether the benefits of cleaner transients and deeper response outweigh the disadvantage of a louder room boom.

In terms of sound quality what does big and small mean? At low frequencies where sound is perceived as all around and without direction I would suggest big means large enough to be able to deliver inaudibly distorted sound and small means not. This means cleanly reproducing transients (peak level) rather than being perceived as loud enough (average level 20 dB or so lower). This is a function of listening level, low frequency extension of the music, room response (controlled or uncontrolled), distance from mains, size of room and so cannot be precise. For your room I would expect the line to lie somewhere around 2 x 6.5" woofers for tower mains.

After looking up what type of speakers TJL-3W were I deleted my recommendations and would suggest spending the money on several subs and DSP control if sound quality in a technical sense is of primary interest. Assuming they were well constructed given your budget secondhand any improvements in sound quality are likely to be marginal although you could get different.
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
RoA said:
You say solutions which include subs are welcome. I assume you budgeted for the subs in addition to the £1000 for the speakers?

I won't even go in to possible speaker choices as I lack the knowledge and there are just too many possible variables/suggestions based on personal preferences ... so I leave this to others but it would likely help to mention how loud you listen and what is important soundwise ...

Your forum name, choice of amps and the mention of subs leads me to believe you err on the side of Orchestral or Rock genres but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

My tastes are somewhat catholic - but err more towards rock and electronica. I have a pair of sealed 12" front firing subs if necessary.
 
NotOneIota said:
Any other requirements? Do you have particular aesthetic or decorative preferences? Do the speakers have to work close to or right against a wall, or fit in around anything else?

When you say the the speakers are 'no good' in the room do you mean there's bass boom? Are you forced to sit too close? Do they just look too big?
Click to expand...

They're huge - very tall speakers. I don't mind this, but they're designed for far, far bigger listening rooms than mine. They don't stand out particularly as they're quite narrow. It's all about the sound, my significant other has been downgraded to flatmate, so has no say in the aesthetics. Or anything else, for that matter.
 
h.g. said:
Large speakers in small rooms take up a lot of space but can play louder (i.e. reproduce transients cleanly which is 100% a good thing) and, usually, extend lower in frequency. The latter is good in terms of accuracy but if the room response is not controlled it will boom and this boom will normally be louder with speakers that extend deeper. Competently and fairly lightly using DSP systems like Dirac on the mains can reduce some of the room boom and is 100% a good thing. Attempting to do too much with DSP on the mains however can sound poor because some aspects of a poor room response cannot be addressed by equalising the mains (it can by distributing speakers around the room but only for frequencies below 80 Hz or so).

If you opt to do nothing about room boom then reducing the output at low frequencies can make it a bit less objectionable. A small sealed speaker rolling off at 100 Hz or so could achieve this but it obviously depends on the room, speaker and listening locations. A larger speaker with the equivalent high pass filter applied will do exactly the same in terms of room boom but will also be able to reproduce transients more cleanly hence making it better.

Conclusion: big speakers are better than small speakers in small rooms if you control the room response. If you don't control the room response then whether a big speaker is better than a small will depend on whether the benefits of cleaner transients and deeper response outweigh the disadvantage of a louder room boom.

In terms of sound quality what does big and small mean? At low frequencies where sound is perceived as all around and without direction I would suggest big means large enough to be able to deliver inaudibly distorted sound and small means not. This means cleanly reproducing transients (peak level) rather than being perceived as loud enough (average level 20 dB or so lower). This is a function of listening level, low frequency extension of the music, room response (controlled or uncontrolled), distance from mains, size of room and so cannot be precise. For your room I would expect the line to lie somewhere around 2 x 6.5" woofers for tower mains.

After looking up what type of speakers TJL-3W were I deleted my recommendations and would suggest spending the money on several subs and DSP control if sound quality in a technical sense is of primary interest. Assuming they were well constructed given your budget secondhand any improvements in sound quality are likely to be marginal although you could get different.
Click to expand...

Interesting points. I shall persevere perhaps, and look at some basic (transl. cheap but effective) room correction to give the dirac a hand. Several shaggy rugs may be heading this way.

I was surprised about your comment re the TJL's though, as they're very good, and certainly need no subs. Those long throw SEAS neodymium/magnesium cone drivers produce bass that I wouldn't have believed possible, and although I was skeptical about the crossover points it does make a great deal of sense to do what Troels Gravesen has done with this design. The 4th order linkwitz-riley crossovers aren't the most efficient, but they're rather nice, accurate speakers.
 
NotOneIota said:
Any other requirements? Do you have particular aesthetic or decorative preferences? Do the speakers have to work close to or right against a wall, or fit in around anything else?

When you say the the speakers are 'no good' in the room do you mean there's bass boom? Are you forced to sit too close? Do they just look too big?
Click to expand...

They're a little narrow in their dispersal, so an aggressive toe-in is required. I would like some speakers that will go close to a rear wall, and not need quite so aggressive a toe-in. I would like to have a new (well, few careful "owners") significant other at some point, and both of us being able to enjoy the audio simultaneously would be good.
 
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