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Naim XS2 replacing Lavardin IS Ref

Midlandaudiox said:
As the UK distributor I feel your findings are completely unfounded
Along with many others the musical coherence and texture of sound is quite frankly in a different stratosphere to an XS2
It’s like comparing a bottle of Trevento Malbec (not a bad slurpand a good quaffing red) to a bottle of Illuninos vino de la luz an award winning superior slurp
But I am aware people can’t tell the difference
And if so enjoy the Trivento
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Really disappointed to see this, especially having bought from your shop in the past as well.
I appreciate your expertise, but taking this tone on a subjective topic, especially as a dealer is very very patronising and not doing you any favours
 
Have used;
Nait Xs with MA 20se and Epos ES11
Supernait 2 With the above and LV Avatar

Now have Lavardin IS ref with the LV Avatar.

With the Naim amps there was always an element of choosing the music that worked with them.

With Lavardin IS Ref it portrays most if not all music styles/recordings in a communicative manner that makes sense of the music. What I considered poorly recorded music is now listenable and enjoyable.
 
I agree that lack of inputs, particularly if you still use cassette deck (with in/out) and lack of headphone can be an issue.
I have separate head phone amp that takes up the line out, so connecting to a cassette or cd recorder etc can be a faff.
But for most with just Record deck cd streamer It’s sufficient.
Bit disappointed that the latest Lavardin ISX ref Which has the remote option has dropped the line out.
Now only appears on the Lavardin ITX.
Otherwise I would upgrade.
 
max626x said:
Have used;
Nait Xs with MA 20se and Epos ES11
Supernait 2 With the above and LV Avatar

Now have Lavardin IS ref with the LV Avatar.

With the Naim amps there was always an element of choosing the music that worked with them.

With Lavardin IS Ref it portrays most if not all music styles/recordings in a communicative manner that makes sense of the music. What I considered poorly recorded music is now listenable and enjoyable.
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Now that is interesting. I must admit that I am a fan of Naim CD players but not their amps. Does the Lavardin sound, with classical music, as though half of the band are asleep, similar to the first few minutes of a live event. This would not be a good idea. My ATC amp gets the more dynamic balance just right.
 
Not in my experience. Lavardin is big on expression and vitality, though ultimate levels of energy are limited by the modest power output, IME. It’s not a wimpy SE triode, but stadium rock might see it running out of puff, a wee bit.
 
Initially used the Lavardin IS Ref with the MA 20se. It was not the best match, probably partially due to the lower sensitivity compared with the living voice Avatars.

If you listen to lots of different styles, both modern and old recordings this amp gets right to the heart of the musical expression, maybe at the expense of some of what the reasonably priced Naim amps do excel at.
But without much compromise.

Best used with speakers of high sensitivity, think suitable for valve amps, and impedance 6 ohms and above.
 
herb said:
Now that is interesting. I must admit that I am a fan of Naim CD players but not their amps. Does the Lavardin sound, with classical music, as though half of the band are asleep, similar to the first few minutes of a live event. This would not be a good idea. My ATC amp gets the more dynamic balance just right.
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Don’t get a feeling that the band are half asleep. There is however no harshness to the sound, which enables you to focus on the musical message, complex rhythms and timing are well communicated, tonal information to the fore. Lots to like, probably not the last word, but I would not want to loose what it does well for gains in other areas.
 
Not sure what the issue is here. Lavardin tend to be very popular amps that people hang on to, as evidenced by the good re-sale. They don't come up that often and when they do, they go quickly. I'd echo what's been said about matching them to an easy load. I've had an IT-15 for a few years with a pair of Art Emotions and love the combination.

Does it bother me that someone else prefers another amp in another situation? Not a jot. I've had high end Naim amps and wouldn't swap in this situation, but given a different requirement for power or drive, who knows? People get so defensive about kit, there are so many ways to get good results.
 
herb said:
Now that is interesting. I must admit that I am a fan of Naim CD players but not their amps. Does the Lavardin sound, with classical music, as though half of the band are asleep, similar to the first few minutes of a live event. This would not be a good idea.
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I would say if your are mostly into classical music, especially smaller ensembles, then a Lavardin would be a good amplifier if you have the matching speaker.

I compared it directly to the Croft Integrated R with the Living Voice R3R. With not very demanding music it sounded good (still there are better solid states out there IMO), it doesn't have the grain most ss-amplifiers have to my ears but I played Pink Floyd after the more mellow music and the Lavardin sounded like it was broken. It isn't the about power, because the Croft doesn't have that much more and the loudness was hight but not that high that the croft was clipping so the Lavardin shouldn't have been clipping too. It sounded dynamic compressed and I was missing bass quantity a lot.

I would say it works good with Jazz too if dynamic and PRAT isn't on top of your priority list.

But if I would be into Classic music and Jazz I'd look for a good valve amplifier because they do the ambiance thing and have that "the musicians are in your room" the music sounds more alive to me.
 
As a classical listener I find that valve preamp, Class D power amp does "the ambience thing" without the limitations of affordable valve power amplifiers (chiefly speaker impedance/sensitivity related).

But the DAC is also a player in the ambience stakes... the TEAC UD-503's upconversion to DSD makes a positive difference in that regard.
 
Bas V said:
Now I'm curious what you think are brilliant amps. Probably the Aavik U-150, what more?
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I had Shahinian speakers at the time of my Lavardin ownership (Arc and Super Elf), so maybe there was a mismatch there. Let me be clear, in no way did the Lavardin sound bad...I think they were very smooth, but my abiding memory is that I found myself snoozing off (literally) when listening to music with them. The Supernait was almost the opposite. The guy I sold it to had ATC 40 floorstanders and when we tested it with them, they didn't quite gel either. He had more knowledge of Lavardins and reflected to me exactly my experience of them. In hindsight, maybe my speakers were not suited to them, so would be interested in MAX's experience of pairing them with Shahinians.

Brilliant amps (in my opinion) that I have owned? I'm almost 40 years into this hobby and I love MOSFETS so I'm a Linx fanboy - love their detailed, powerful sound - I have Stratos pre & monos and also a Nebula integrated. Also the vintage MF B200 is also a bit of a low cost MOSFET sleeper. All these are currently in storage. Other amps in past ownership that I recall fondly are Bedini, Peachtree, chrome bumper Naims particularly the Nait 2 & NAC160 and also a 1990s Accuphase E-406. I rue selling my Nait 2 and 160. The Aavik is now sounding great but took a bit of trial and error to get there, and was even thinking of selling them on until I recently sorted out my mains supply and mounting (things that Aavik as a company take seriously but I didn't realise just how critical to this amplifier's performance they are). But Audionet are really where its at for me, I almost made the stupid mistake of selling my set a few weeks ago thinking of my bank account rather than my happiness. I had 3 buyers for my Audionets and a German guy who was going to pay full asking price effectively told me I was a twat for even thinking about selling them (when I revealed that I didn't really want to sell them anymore)!!!
 
Oh and my Concordant Excelsior pre and Monoblock (Quad II based) power amps were somewhat stunning as well (running into some vintage Lowther horns).
 
I can see both sides of this but having owned Naim and, after some sterling work where I managed to get to hear the Lavardin at length, there are some circumstances where it’s not a matter of taste.

I’m not entirely sure the Lavardin was to my taste. It certainly didn’t sound valvey. It was on the soft, dark side of neutral for me if anything. I even agree the Lavardin definitely has some bad press around repairs (although Naim in house is hardly stellar these days). However, it’s not a matter of presentation at all here. The Lavardin is streets ahead of an XS2 on so many things it’s hard to know where to start. The Naim doesn’t even fulfill the “punches above it’s weight” cliche. It performs if anything a little below given the price.

If people want to say “well I preferred” I see no issue with that, but objectively the differences are significant and clear cut. I have chosen many hi-fi products because they were what I wanted/loved when doing comparisons to things I knew did lots of things objectively better but left me cold. It doesn’t make my cheaper product better. It simply made it better for me at that time. Not the same thing at all.
 
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Rana said:
I had Shahinian speakers at the time of my Lavardin ownership (Arc and Super Elf), so maybe there was a mismatch there. Let me be clear, in no way did the Lavardin sound bad...I think they were very smooth, but my abiding memory is that I found myself snoozing off (literally) when listening to music with them. The Supernait was almost the opposite. The guy I sold it to had ATC 40 floorstanders and when we tested it with them, they didn't quite gel either. He had more knowledge of Lavardins and reflected to me exactly my experience of them. In hindsight, maybe my speakers were not suited to them, so would be interested in MAX's experience of pairing them with Shahinians.
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You see, this sort of thing can help to shape misleading impressions. If I had either of those speakers, the Lavardin, much as I like them, would not even make my shortlist if you wanted realistic listening levels.

Partner them with the right speakers and they are capable of a spaciously large presentation with levels of revealed detail and delicacy that the Naim amps simply can't compete with IME having had both. However, Shahinian or passive ATCs would need much more grunt to be driven properly and some Naim amps (preferably more powerful than the Supernait) may well be ideal.
 
Mike Hughes said:
I can see both sides of this but having owned Naim and, after some sterling work where I managed to get to hear the Lavardin at length, there are some circumstances where it’s not a matter of taste.

I’m not entirely sure the Lavardin was to my taste. It certainly didn’t sound valvey. It was on the soft, dark side oF neutral for me of anything. I even agree the Lavardin definitely has some bad press around repairs (although Naim in house is hardly stellar these days). However, it’s not a matter of presentation at all here. The Lavardin is streets ahead of an XS2 on so many things it’s hard to know where to start. The Naim doesn’t even fulfill the “punches above it’s weight” cliche. It performs of anything a little below given the price.

If people want to say “well I preferred” I see no issue with that, but objectively the differences are significant and clear cut.
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Again, I have a different opinion and I don't see the point why your impression is objective and my ones are subjective.
The people who didn't liked Lavardin complained about the same things, you can even read it in magazines in Germany which is not very often happening these days. The Lavardin excels in some ways above the Nait XS2 but it is far behind in others IMO.
 
I suspect the Lavardin doesn't deliver a great deal of current, so with speakers which dip to the low side of normal in their impedance, might struggle and be a bit stressed. Give them an easy load, and they're magical things, IME.
 
The minimum impedance of the LV R3R is 4.5 Ohm so this can't be the reason. Also the Lavardin IT seems to be stable down to 2 Ohm (I have measurements from Stereoplay).
 
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