Japanese Cartridge Comparison

[Amber Audio]

Hana are made by Excel Sound Japan

Excel Sound Corporation developed the HANA moving coil cartridge range, combining their 50 years’ cartridge design and manufacturing expertise with modern manufacturing technologies; using high quality materials together with long established hand assembly techniques for best quality. Excel Sound is proud to offer Hana as the embodiment of brilliance and beauty to value-seeking music lovers around the world, who demand the finest analog reproduction.
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https://www.hanacartridges.com/

 

[jusphish]

I went to Tokyo every 2 or 3 years and I never saw a Hana brand there. I saw cartridges from DV, AT to Koetsu and a few that is not available in the west but no Hana and I am starting to wonder if they are really Japanese made.

Their website mentions something about made to export so possibly not even selling there? Somewhat new product anyway.

 

[jusphish]

I think £350, is exactly where a good moving magnet cartridge will beat a high output moving coil every time. In any case moving magnets are so easy to match to a phono stage. I really like the Ortofon 2M range.
The bronze is designed to sound as you wanted. Plenty of detail, not quite as much as the black, but a slightly warmer fuller sound. No trace of harsh highs.

I do love Hana Low output moving coils, but those really start above £500. Nagaoka are excellent but I can’t comment on the sound of the models you suggest. Goldring would be my other choice. The 1042 has been around an age but that’s because it’s one of the best moving magnets on the market still.

Think the Hana-EL is around £389 and low output. In the past I’ve had a 2M-Blue and enjoyed it, so good idea about the 2M-Bronze. Should consider. Still looking at that Nagaoka too.

 

[jusphish]

I agree regards the MP11 Boron, I’m using an MP11 Boron on a Rega arm fitted to an LP12. Sounds great to my ears. I had an MP50 in the past but couldn’t justify the outlay for a replacement stylus when it eventually needed replacing.
The MP11 Boron was a back up and I was also lucky to find a NOS stylus for it.
I’ve used other carts such as AT440mlb, Denon DL110, Rega Exact, Ortofon 2M Blue, but it’s the Nagaoka I prefer.

Perhaps boron cantilever is the main diff between MP-150 and MP-200. Wonder how much difference it really makes, besides for about £80. Have read that supposedly less sibilant as it has its resonance bump higher in frequency vs. aluminium designs.

 

[Tony L]

Hard to generalise, but I’ve certainly felt ‘fancy’ cantilevers track better and have a smoother cleaner HF response. I suspect it is a low-mass/rigidity thing. The MP-500 runs rings around say the 2M Black in this regard to my ears. Just so quiet, clean and unfazed by anything. I felt the same decades ago about the MP-11 Boron. Mine was the Stilton Audio modified version and it was a superb cart, it just destroyed the ubiquitous Linn K9 to my ears. I eventually replaced it with a Stilton AT-F5 MC, and that didn’t strike me as an improvement over the Nag really. The AT33 PTG is one of the best MCs I’ve owned, maybe the best (despite being less than half the price of some) and IIRC that has a fancy cantilever. Good tip profile too. It was certainly the best tracking MC I’ve owned and stayed beautifully clean to end of side on even highly modulated stuff.

 

[jusphish]

I wonder how the MP-200 would do with a Naim Stageline N... have read on Naim forums that their stages didn't pair well with Rega styli, with the combo becoming too dark and thick (not my words). With MP-200 also described as warm, I wonder if it would be a similar situation. I currently have a Rega Fono MM mk2 which is fine at this level, though have been considering a move to the Naim, which would fit nicely in my system, connected to a SN2.

 

[Robert]

The Nags are all MI, as are Grado. I find the Nag way less sensitive to capacitance than AT or Ortofon MMs, I’d be curious to know if that is a trait of MI designs. Loading makes or breaks an MM IMO, I’m sure a lot of the negativity towards them as a genre comes from hearing them in less than ideal electrical conditions. A lot of the ‘art’ has been forgotten since their heyday in the ‘70s and everyone seems to expect them all to work with every phono stage and arm lead capacitance.

Grado really do miss a trick with their Flux Bridger designs, a variation on MI.
The generators have the same output at a typical MM but about one tenth the inductance. Pretty much immune to loading conditions and with the potential for wide bandwidth.
Unfortunately they cheap-out with the cantilever and especially the stylus - high mass things which waste many of the benefits of the generator.

I guess they just don't see sufficient market demand but a 'Gold +' at say £300 with a low mass tapered cantilever and ML tip would put them right back into the audiophile cartridge game IMO.

Instead they seem content to take the same basic carts and put them into ugly wooden coffin overcoats at a high premium.

There is an old saying here in East London - 'all fur coat and no knickers'

 

[Tony L]

I guess they just don't see sufficient market demand but a 'Gold +' at say £300 with a low mass tapered cantilever and ML tip would put them eight back into the audiophile cartridge game IMO.

Agree entirely. I’d love to see them build on the best of their past e.g. the F1+ etc, even go further with a boron cantilever etc. It surprises me that they prioritise wood bodies etc above cantilever material, stylus profile, tip-mass etc. There is no issue with higher-priced MMs, they existed back in the ‘70s, and with the MP-500, 2M Black and various Soundsmith and Clearaudio models they still exist today. I definitely want part of what I pay extra for to be improved tracking & tracing. A really good MM will beat any MC here.

 

[tomek]

Hana and many others are made in Japan by Excel :

The low output shibata version of Dynavector DV-10X5 MKII is phantastic, IMHO it has much better, punchy bass, than Hana and more fine details and 3d than 2M Black.

 

[oldius]

The two best cartridges I have owned have been the AT-Art1 and the Denon DL-S1. If the latter was made by a boutique manufacturer, I have no doubt it could have commanded a substantial price tag. I have always found both brands to offer excellent value and sound quality beyond what is also available at similar prices.

 

[DimitryZ]

Consider a vintage cartridge, such as the original AT33E from 1980s. It has a beryllium foil cantilever that can't be made today - toxic manufacturing process they say.

Just like vitamin Q, these don't go bad.

 

[joe9407]

have read on Naim forums that their stages didn't pair well with Rega styli, with the combo becoming too dark and thick

Yes, that's an accurate description of the Stageline N with many cartridges! As a longtime Naim fan, it gives me no pleasure to say this, but the Stageline N is a poor product.

I had a P5 a few years back with a Dynavector 10x5 cartridge and Dynavector P75 mk. 1 phono stage and can vouch for that combination. Not the last word in openness and detail, but very decent.

As you have the Fono MM, however, I think I'd just throw an Exact on there and call it a day.

Edit: my comment about the Exact was kind of boring. I apologize. Yeah, throw a Nag 200 on there and see what happens!

 

[jusphish]

my comment about the Exact was kind of boring. I apologize. Yeah, throw a Nag 200 on there and see what happens!

Something good, I hope. Interesting perspective on the Stageline.... perhaps I should leave well enough alone after all.

 

[Yank]

Grado really do miss a trick with their Flux Bridger designs, a variation on MI.
The generators have the same output at a typical MM but about one tenth the inductance. Pretty much immune to loading conditions and with the potential for wide bandwidth.
Unfortunately they cheap-out with the cantilever and especially the stylus - high mass things which waste many of the benefits of the generator.

I guess they just don't see sufficient market demand but a 'Gold +' at say £300 with a low mass tapered cantilever and ML tip would put them right back into the audiophile cartridge game IMO.

Instead they seem content to take the same basic carts and put them into ugly wooden coffin overcoats at a high premium.

There is an old saying here in East London - 'all fur coat and no knickers'

Only problem is that Grados tend to be noisy on Rega turntables.

 

[audiopile]

Not all IM cart designs are capacitance insensitive -but Grado's certainly just don't care how much capacitance they see. OTOH- loading them with parallel resistors to something between 10kOhm -33 kOhm is well worth a try. Couple of nights ago I tried out a NOS Grado GF3E - it's been sittin in it's box for 40 years or so - way better sounding to my ol' ears than the newer Prestige models of the last 10-15 years or so ? Ya know -you could get a better/exotic cantilever and tip glued into the stub on a Grado stylus -this is done all the time for MC carts-nothing stopping the same treatment for Grados ? BTW-if you want to experiment with IM/MM cart loading - dB systems in Ridge NH USA has been selling capacitance loading kits that allow you to very simply add capacitance and resistor loading kits that are just as simple for decreasing input resistance. Their only drawback is they are not very expensive or cryo treated or noticeably gold plated. They have been making these for about 40 years at this point -they work quit well.

 

[Tony L]

Not all IM cart designs are capacitance insensitive -but Grado's certainly just don't care how much capacitance they see.

As far as I can tell Nagaokas are much the same. Certainly in comparison with say Ortofon. I have a (slightly modified) Quad 34 and two MM phono boards, one with the stock 220pF, the other modified with 30pF, plus my usual JC Verdier valve preamp, the loading of which I don’t know. The Ortofon 2M Black and it’s predecessor the 540/II (which I actually prefer) sounded great into the 34 board with the 30pF capacitance, but horribly bright into the 220pF boards, as they did into the Verdier. A brightness that pushes hi-hats forward and exaggerates every tick, click and pop. The MP-500 sounds great in all, barely different into either Quad board and superb feeding the Verdier. It just doesn’t seem to care what the capacitive loading is.

 

[daytona600]

Unfortunately they cheap-out with the cantilever and especially the stylus - high mass things which waste many of the benefits of the generator.
I guess they just don't see sufficient market demand but a 'Gold +' at say £300

Top wood body grados are $12,000 one of the best at any price
lowest moving mass & stylus ever produced
25-30dB norm separation on most high end MCs
Grado Channel separation: avg. 47dB - 6 Hz - 72 KHz
they start @ £250 for the Opus3
MM/MC accepted norm Grado , Decca & SPUs have have been in production for over 50years
Grado Epoch Phono Cartridge (positive-feedback.com)

Grado Timbre Series, Opus3 - The Absolute Sound

 

[Robert]

Agree entirely. I’d love to see them build on the best of their past e.g. the F1+ etc, even go further with a boron cantilever etc. It surprises me that they prioritise wood bodies etc above cantilever material, stylus profile, tip-mass etc. There is no issue with higher-priced MMs, they existed back in the ‘70s, and with the MP-500, 2M Black and various Soundsmith and Clearaudio models they still exist today. I definitely want part of what I pay extra for to be improved tracking & tracing.

I think in the case of Grado they have a skewed view of what counts when it comes to desirability in the market.
Same thing with their headphones. A 'budget £70 SR60 is largely the same thing sonically as a £1K model with exotic wood cups and leather band. I made that mistake myself and quickly returned the latter!

Nothing wrong with using a business model where paying more gets you a luxury version of the base model, but that base model needs to be very good.
Partly works with their headphones, but the carts are a very mixed bag in terms of sonics - brilliance mixed with

Not all IM cart designs are capacitance insensitive -but Grado's certainly just don't care how much capacitance they see. OTOH- loading them with parallel resistors to something between 10kOhm -33 kOhm is well worth a try. Couple of nights ago I tried out a NOS Grado GF3E - it's been sittin in it's box for 40 years or so - way better sounding to my ol' ears than the newer Prestige models of the last 10-15 years or so ? Ya know -you could get a better/exotic cantilever and tip glued into the stub on a Grado stylus -this is done all the time for MC carts-nothing stopping the same treatment for Grados ? BTW-if you want to experiment with IM/MM cart loading - dB systems in Ridge NH USA has been selling capacitance loading kits that allow you to very simply add capacitance and resistor loading kits that are just as simple for decreasing input resistance. Their only drawback is they are not very expensive or cryo treated or noticeably gold plated. They have been making these for about 40 years at this point -they work quit well.

I've often thought about having a better cantilever and stylus fitted to a Grado. It's on the to do list.
I did once ask Jico and they kindly replied saying they'd be happy to offer this service if I would pay the tooling costs for a Grado stylus assembly!
You've got admire the bare faced cheek

 

[Robert]

[QUOTE="
Unfortunately they cheap-out with the cantilever and especially the stylus - high mass things which waste many of the benefits of the generator.
I guess they just don't see sufficient market demand but a 'Gold +' at say £300

Top wood body grados are $12,000 one of the best at any price
lowest moving mass & stylus ever produced
25-30dB norm separation on most high end MCs
Grado Channel separation: avg. 47dB - 6 Hz - 72 KHz
they start @ £250 for the Opus3
MM/MC accepted norm Grado , Decca & SPUs have have been in production for over 50years
Grado Epoch Phono Cartridge (positive-feedback.com)

Grado Timbre Series, Opus3 - The Absolute Sound

Lets see someone like Paul Miller get their hands on one and bench test those claims.

 

[daytona600]

r
The Epoch did things I hadn't heard any cartridge do…put on an LP of the right music, sit down…and you're done. It's remarkable.-Stereophile, Michael Fremer
If you have the money and are looking for an amazing cartridge for your record collection, the Grado Epoch is the one. -Steve Hoffman
For me, a 10 out of 10 Star product is the Grado Epoch.VPI, Harry Weisfeld