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Ireland; the centenary of Partition

KrisW said:
Bluntly, I consider both NI parties to be parasites. Consciously or unconsciously they choose to ignore the economic and political causes of their constituents' troubles and instead blame it on the other side.

The NI Assembly has sectarianism hard-wired into it, unfortunately, in the rules for power-sharing where there must be a Nationalist and a Unionist faction in government, even if (hypothetically) most voters went for a neutral coalition.
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Very hard to combat the long-established tribal aspects, which, in my opinion, run much deeper than any religious/economic aspects. Our department had an American administrator who was an ardent (US) Republican. Why, I would ask, do you vote for a party that is only interested in cossetting rich people and that has precisely zero actual interest in your interests? There was never really a reply, just that she stuck faithfully to the tribe.

The American Civil War killed more Americans than the combined casualties of every other war in which America has ever participated. Most of those ordinary Confederate soldiers who walked into a wall of Union cannon and rifle fire at Pickett's Charge didn't own a slave and never would, so why fight for the maintenance of slavery? Because they were members of the superior tribe and they were determined to stay that way.

And so it is up North - it's a perverted version of "holding on to nurse, for fear of something worse". The tribe labelled "Unionist" is determined to hold on to its privileges, the tribe labelled "Nationalist/Republican" has got a sniff at changing things and wants more. "No surrender!" and Tiocfaidh ár lá do not mix well. Hopefully the middle ground between the two extremes will grow, but it's going to take some time.
 
Wilson said:
Interesting that the Palestine thread has been removed while this thread remains.
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There is an interesting parallel here - both the British and Israeli Governments have regarded their respective problems as something to be managed, rather than something to be solved. In both cases, any attempted genuine solution would open both governments to very uncomfortable confrontations with facts that they'd rather forget. Both are right to condemn the IRA and Hamas for their acts of terrorism, but only when the issues of what brought the IRA and Hamas into existence in the first place are honestly confronted can there be real progress.
 
The parallel hasn't gone unnoticed in the North either - with the Loyalists hanging out Israeli flags alongside the Union Jack, and the Nationalists flying the Palestinian flag to match.

One of the other 'fleg' waving carry-ons up there that always raises a smile for me is the Nationalist side flying the Rainbow flag - purely to get up the noses of the more homophobic elements of the DUP :)
 
Where are the hordes of Irish Republic citizenry decrying and moaning with bitter regret their decision to go for independence from the UK 100 years ago? That would be a warning to us Scots!
Oh look, there aren't any.
 
-alan- said:
The parallel hasn't gone unnoticed in the North either - with the Loyalists hanging out Israeli flags alongside the Union Jack, and the Nationalists flying the Palestinian flag to match.

One of the other 'fleg' waving carry-ons up there that always raises a smile for me is the Nationalist side flying the Rainbow flag - purely to get up the noses of the more homophobic elements of the DUP :)
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Sinn Féin has long identified with the Palestinian struggle - there is/was a mural up the Falls twinning the two struggles.

The Loyalist identification with the Israelis is something new to me, and a bit odd. That well-known reformer and Protestant hero Martin Luther absolutely detested Jews. Why? Because, as he saw it, he had restored the true Gospel and the Jews should recognise it and come to the true Messiah. When they didn't, he was less than amused. The Nazis used his feelings to great effect (because he essentially invented the German language in his translation of the Bible, he is a great cultural figure in Germany, as well as a religious figure).
 
tones said:
Sinn Féin has long identified with the Palestinian struggle - there is/was a mural up the Falls twinning the two struggles.

The Loyalist identification with the Israelis is something new to me, and a bit odd. That well-known reformer and Protestant hero Martin Luther absolutely detested Jews. Why? Because, as he saw it, he had restored the true Gospel and the Jews should recognise it and come to the true Messiah. When they didn't, he was less than amused. The Nazis used his feelings to great effect (because he essentially invented the German language in his translation of the Bible, he is a great cultural figure in Germany, as well as a religious figure).
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NornIron spake on>
So it's like that then is it ? Right me oul han...


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Interesting take by a US Jewish visitor on the flag wars here:

https://www.salon.com/2002/07/18/ireland_2/
 
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