how much for a fuse,

[adamdea]

Anyone genuinely interested in whether there is any evidence that a person may be likely to consider that there is a difference between two identical stimuli would probably find this interesting.
http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/wishful_thinking.htm
which points out a number of tests in which the participants considered between 30-60% of the time that two identical stimuli were different.

The implications are obvious for the seriousness with which anecdotal reports are to be taken of sonic differences in systems which would appear likely to have immaterially different outputs.

 

[mindlagoon]

Precisely!

Off topic... what frequency and for what SINAD are those RF results?

In the vicinity of 180 MHz or 191 depending on the mode. Psophometric SINAD at -107 is typically 26/27dB. When designing it the target was the usual 12dB at -119, I think. It's been a few years.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

No, I'm applying Occam's Razor, or possibly more accurately the null hypothesis. That's all. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I don't think it's really Occam's Razor, nor that that's necessarily an appropriate use of it in any case, because what you have is one explanation which doesn't fit currently understood principles, and one which is pure conjecture. So you don't have two competing explanations/groups of assumptions to weigh in the balance. As I've argued before, saying 'it can't be X, therefore it must be Y' doesn't cut it when you have no solid explanation for why Y is a valid option, or indeed the only alternative option.

And yes, I've skimmed the pieces I can access of what's been referenced upthread. Clearly I can't refute them, and nor can I dismiss 'you imagined it' as a possibility. Nor have I ever tried to, in fact; I acknowledge that it is and will remain a possibility. However, 'proving' it isn't X is not proof that it is Y, until you can show that Y is the only alternative to X. Which nobody ever does, and that's the point the argument becomes, in effect, 'standsterreason, dunnit'.

 

[stevec67]

I don't think it's really Occam's Razor, nor that that's necessarily an appropriate use of it in any case, because what you have is one explanation which doesn't fit currently understood principles, and one which is pure conjecture. So you don't have two competing explanations/groups of assumptions to weigh in the balance. As I've argued before, saying 'it can't be X, therefore it must be Y' doesn't cut it when you have no solid explanation for why Y is a valid option, or indeed the only alternative option.

And yes, I've skimmed the pieces I can access of what's been referenced upthread. Clearly I can't refute them, and nor can I dismiss 'you imagined it' as a possibility. Nor have I ever tried to, in fact; I acknowledge that it is and will remain a possibility. However, 'proving' it isn't X is not proof that it is Y, until you can show that Y is the only alternative to X. Which nobody ever does, and that's the point the argument becomes, in effect, 'standsterreason, dunnit'.

No it doesn't. It becomes "wow, really? That's amazing. Show me" .

I can tell you I ran a 2 hour marathon last week. Timed it on my watch, measured my own course. Nobody ever has, but it's not beyond possibility. So are you going to rewrite the record books, or are you going to say "Wow, that's a world record, if you did. Show me" ?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

You can pretend to yourself that the typical response on here to 'I heard X' is 'wow, show me!' if you like, but I'm not buying it. Sorry.

It's invariably 'Bollocks, prove it!' which, even with a following wind, in the best light, full-on rose-tinted spectacle mode, is entirely different. So if you think that's what the response is, then there's more than one person on this thread who might be deluding himself.

 

[palacefan]

I am not sure that a sensible valuation of fuses would be appropriate without ensuring that a system is fully optimised. With this in mind I looked at youtube for guidance and while I was not looking for cost comparisons and value for money notable differences were heard.

Every time a thread such as this appears experts say a fuse is a fuse and an Amplifier is designed to do this etc and it comes from a power station miles away, I have found that upgraded mains cables, interwoven cable for radials, interconnects from silver foil and picking my nose while facing Mecca have improved the sound of my system.

I would not spend silly money on cables or fuses for that matter but I suspect that some improvements may be possible by upgrading fuses.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

In the vicinity of 180 MHz or 191 depending on the mode. Psophometric SINAD at -107 is typically 26/27dB. When designing it the target was the usual 12dB at -119, I think. It's been a few years.

You know I guessed it would be around that frequency! Too much background noise for it to be worthwhile much below and not possible to get that sensitivity much higher...
Funnily enough I have my Bruel & Kjaer 2429 Psophometer behind me on a small table as I type this!

It's a pity the likes of us obviously don't understand the complexities of such high end kit as fuses... and IEC leads...

 

[stevec67]

You can pretend to yourself that the typical response on here to 'I heard X' is 'wow, show me!' if you like, but I'm not buying it. Sorry.

It's invariably 'Bollocks, prove it!' which, even with a following wind, in the best light, full-on rose-tinted spectacle mode, is entirely different. So if you think that's what the response is, then there's more than one person on this thread who might be deluding himself.

"Bollocks, prove it" would be exactly what you'd say it I claiming a 2 your marathon, so yeah, if you want to rewrite Ohm's Law, you can expect something between "really?" and " bollocks, prove it! " I'm not making any excuses for that. I'll centre on "show me, or you're making it up".

 

[mindlagoon]

You know I guessed it would be around that frequency! Too much background noise for it to be worthwhile much below and not possible to get that sensitivity much higher...
Funnily enough I have my Bruel & Kjaer 2429 Psophometer behind me on a small table as I type this!

It's a pity the likes of us obviously don't understand the complexities of such high end kit as fuses... and IEC leads...

Yep, it's the internal noise that ruins the fun but it has a decent E-PHEMPT LNA to help keep the racket down

 

[Mike Reed]

Last response from the o.p. was page one. Probably overwhelmed by the widely ranging responses; not really surprised.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Last response from the o.p. was page one. Probably overwhelmed by the widely ranging responses; not really surprised.

It was a troll thread, designed to get people frothing. No doubt mission accomplished for the op.

 

[DimitryZ]

I have told the story before.

I had a "brilliant" idea that I will make power cables from the same wire that is in the wall. Makes engineering sense - if 100 feet of power wire is made of X, why not the last 6 feet?

So I bought "in-wall" wire and medical grade connectors. Wired up my high end system ($50k at that time) and sat back to listen with a grin on my face. I expected and wanted to hear goodness.

The sound sucked so bad, I was unplugging the new power cables after 10 minutes - and that's a lot of work in my setup.

There is zero objective reason, why my perfectly sensible power cables sucked so bad, especially considering my developing positive expectation bias.

Yet here it was. Unmistakable as day.

 

[Barrymagrec]

You needed a better fuse.

 

[DimitryZ]

You needed a better fuse.

I think we all need a longer fuse.

 

[chartz]

I have told the story before.

I had a "brilliant" idea that I will make power cables from the same wire that is in the wall. Makes engineering sense - if 100 feet of power wire is made of X, why not the last 6 feet?

So I bought "in-wall" wire and medical grade connectors. Wired up my high end system ($50k at that time) and sat back to listen with a grin on my face. I expected and wanted to hear goodness.

The sound sucked so bad, I was unplugging the new power cables after 10 minutes - and that's a lot of work in my setup.

There is zero objective reason, why my perfectly sensible power cables sucked so bad, especially considering my developing positive expectation bias.

Yet here it was. Unmistakable as day.

That is a truly fascinating experience Dimitry.
It should have made no positive or negative differences indeed. Copper is copper, etc.
There must be several layers in bias and expectation, each one influencing the other.
Psycho-acoustics is an amazing science and only a brain scientist will perhaps one day explain those odd perceived differences.
They do exist, but to me they are just a construction of the unconscious.

 

[DimitryZ]

That is a truly fascinating experience Dimitry.
It should have made no positive or negative differences indeed. Copper is copper, etc.
There must be several layers in bias and expectation, each one influencing the other.
Psycho-acoustics is an amazing science and only a brain scientist will perhaps one day explain those odd perceived differences.
They do exist, but to me they are just a construction of the unconscious.

The simplest explanation is that wall wiring makes a poor power cable.

 

[fegs]

The simplest explanation is that wall wiring makes a poor power cable.

But why?

 

[Miss Ariel]

But why?

I remember reading years ago in HI FI News and Record Review.They had a feature on Ken Kesslers new listening room as he had built a new one.It was a concrete bunker with very thick walls.
He had no less than 3 differant types of mains cable going to his mains sockets which he could change by some junction box.I think he was quite pleased with the results he got.
Can't offer much to this thread as I have limited understanding about electricity etc.
I do know my system sounds better late night and early morning.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

That is a truly fascinating experience Dimitry.
It should have made no positive or negative differences indeed. Copper is copper, etc.
There must be several layers in bias and expectation, each one influencing the other.
Psycho-acoustics is an amazing science and only a brain scientist will perhaps one day explain those odd perceived differences.
They do exist, but to me they are just a construction of the unconscious.

The interesting thing for me is that conventional forum wisdom would argue that as Dimitry had high hopes for his cables, ‘expectation bias’ would have pretty much guaranteed they sounded subjectively better. That his expectations were thoroughly confounded (not just the same, not just slightly different, but they ‘sucked’) does put a small dent in the ‘you imagined it’ school of thought’s argument.

 

[chartz]

The simplest explanation is that wall wiring makes a poor power cable.

Mmm.
You know, my hi-fi is on a separate supply coming directly from the mains switch.
I did that 25 years ago when I built my listening room from scratch.
I thought that a separate set of sockets (all of them are soldered!) would make a difference in spite of what my electrician background told me.
I was a gullible audiophile fool at the time!

Dimitry’s experience is fascinating because of the unconscious bias that it couldn’t work – being so cheap and rational – in spite of the main bias that it could work. There are layers of biases.
We are complicated animals.