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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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I went thought this recently with my wife who is executor for her late mother’s estate. She needed 2 bill with her name on. Electronic bank statements were not allowed...this is the digital age so no paper statements. My wife doesn’t receive any bills in her name. How many people would 2 bills disenfranchise? There isn’t a perfect way.

The most reliable form, but not foolproof, is photo ID or other biometric but that's only from the perspective of proving identity. I agree with you, most ways will disenfranchise some. For example, I wouldn't want to carry some form of ID on a phone as I don't trust digital nor routinely carry a mobile.
 
I’d have no personal objection to that, like most people I know mine from memory.

Really? I've never known my full NI number. I know there's a 37 in there, and that it ends with a B. Other than that, I'm flummoxed.

But, as we are always sent polling cards at election time, why not insist that those are brought to the polling station as proof of name and address, then destroyed after voting to prevent re-use? That would a) obviate the need for possibly expensive forms of photo ID and b) not disenfranchise anyone.
 
Oh the poor and the sick.
Only socialists care about them.
They know exactly how to give them what they think they want and need, whilst those evil tories are just in it for themselves.
Well perhaps the poor and the sick don’t agree with you. Or are the electorate in Hartlepool just plain poor, sick and stupid?
It is Tories like you I have no time for. I dare say the people of Hartlepool will not be required to have photo ID until they stop voting for the Party of Sleaze, Corruption, Cronyism and Lies.
 
I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. It’s easy enough to find out official figures, but from my discussions with people who work at polling stations, I have absolutely no doubt that the official figures are way understated.
I really don’t see the problem here. I’ve seen many old and very poor people over the years and no one has ever failed to be able to produce photo id.
How would they know? What do they think the real figure is in your leafy village?
 
ID cards again for the snowflakes to whine on about...

There is no problem at all carrying an ID card, we need a national ID card. I carried one for 12 years between 1975-1987, somehow I survived this terrible ordeal and assault on democracy. :rolleyes:
That's a very European attitude Brian.
 
I think it’s difficult to predict figures of how many would be disenfranchised. When asked the question, many people may suggest it would affect whether or not they would vote. In reality, people who wanted to vote still would. And those that couldn’t care less probably wouldn’t.
And those who would dearly like to but don't drive and cannot afford a passport would be banned from voting in your fascist heaven?
 
ID cards again for the snowflakes to whine on about...

There is no problem at all carrying an ID card, we need a national ID card. I carried one for 12 years between 1975-1987, somehow I survived this terrible ordeal and assault on democracy. :rolleyes:


OK - I am really thick and probably also a snowflake so can you explain slowly and clearly to me how on earth an ID card would make voting in an election in any way more secure than it already is.

Every time I have voted my details have been checked against a list and crossed off once I am given the ballot papers.

So if I was of a mind to rig an election in any meaningful way how the fug would I do it?
... find out beforehand who is unlikely to turn up and pretend to be them or get there before the real person arrives and hope no-one kicks up a fuss later - and how many times in a day would I have to do this to make even the slightest difference ?????
 
And those who would dearly like to but don't drive and cannot afford a passport would be banned from voting in your fascist heaven?

[sarcasm]Then they should have worked harder when they were younger in school and become doctors.

No one will be disenfranchised by the glorious Tory proposals, or at least no one worth worrying about.[/sarcasm]
 
OK - I am really thick and probably also a snowflake so can you explain slowly and clearly to me how on earth an ID card would make voting in an election in any way more secure than it already is.

Every time I have voted my details have been checked against a list and crossed off once I am given the ballot papers.

So if I was of a mind to rig an election in any meaningful way how the fug would I do it?
... find out beforehand who is unlikely to turn up and pretend to be them or get there before the real person arrives and hope no-one kicks up a fuss later - and how many times in a day would I have to do this to make even the slightest difference ?????
No. My comment is about ID cards in general. The subject has come up here many times, always with the overly sensitive harping on about attacking democracy and eroding their liberties. It’s nonsense.

As an aside, I wonder if the people who believe carrying ID attacks democracy are the same people as those keen on ignoring the democratic referendum in 2016.

Does any of this latest sub-topic have anything to do with Starmer? I guess anyone in favour of having ID, or not loudly against it, is a rabid tory according to the pfm massive.
 
It is Tories like you I have no time for. I dare say the people of Hartlepool will not be required to have photo ID until they stop voting for the Party of Sleaze, Corruption, Cronyism and Lies.

How would they know? What do they think the real figure is in your leafy village?

And those who would dearly like to but don't drive and cannot afford a passport would be banned from voting in your fascist heaven?

I think you need help.
 
Which, as you well know, they already do to an efficacy of 99.999%. So what else could it be about this scheme that makes it attractive to Conservative politicians?

Guessing wildly, lots of £££££s for companies that support the Tories in cash or kind to develop and manufacture voter ID cards. So we the taxpayers pay for an expensive, unnecessary scheme that will doubtless run way over budget, then probably have to pay again to buy the wretched ID cards.
 
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ID cards again for the snowflakes to whine on about...

There is no problem at all carrying an ID card, we need a national ID card. I carried one for 12 years between 1975-1987, somehow I survived this terrible ordeal and assault on democracy. :rolleyes:
No. My comment is about ID cards in general. The subject has come up here many times, always with the overly sensitive harping on about attacking democracy and eroding their liberties. It’s nonsense.

As an aside, I wonder if the people who believe carrying ID attacks democracy are the same people as those keen on ignoring the democratic referendum in 2016.

Does any of this latest sub-topic have anything to do with Starmer? I guess anyone in favour of having ID, or not loudly against it, is a rabid tory according to the pfm massive.

To call any concern about democracy or liberty ‘overtly sensitive harping’, or any person expressing such concerns a ‘snowflake’ is reducing the argument to insult and is not an argument in support of voter ID on its merits

But from the evidence posted so far, the argument for voter ID has no merit. The arguments in favour of ID cards are entirely spurious. From 2010-16, spanning two general elections and the EU referendum, there were 146 allegations with seven people convicted, five in a single case. Voter fraud quite simply is not an issue with any evidence at all

The arguments that ID cards will have a negative effect on voting participation are based in evidence and research, research such as that from the cabinet office itself which shows that 2.1 million people could miss their right to vote

When trial for voter ID cards were carried out a few years ago, more than 800 people were unable to vote.

On the financial side there are questions about how much ID cards will cost and who will pay for them but this government has pledged that would-be voters who do not possess the necessary photo ID can apply to their council for a free “voter card”.

This could result in councils having to issue 3.5 million cards which will put considerable extra pressure on councils already struggling under Tory cuts and in addition will disproportionately effect those councils in poorer areas.

On the wider democratic issue, there is likely to be a high correlation between poverty and difficulty in meeting the ID requirement. Also, some minority communities will be disproportionately affected. The most recent data shows that people from black and south Asian backgrounds are less likely than their white peers to hold a driving licence. Older and disabled voters also number among those for whom this proposal will act as a barrier to participation. The impediment will be felt widely across society, but the balance of discrimination would favour the Tories in an election.

To put petty insult, and petty insult alone, against the mountain of evidence that voter ID is undemocratic is just not good enough
 
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Guessing wildly, lots of £££££s for companies that support the Tories in cash or kind to develop and manufacture voter ID cards. So we the taxpayers pay for an expensive, unnecessary scheme that will doubtless run way over budget, then probably have to pay again to buy the wretched ID cards.
Snowflake!
 
I think it’s difficult to predict figures of how many would be disenfranchised.

No, it's not even remotely difficult, not difficult at all in fact - about 4% would be disenfranchised according to the Gov's own published figures based on their pilots.

This equates to just short of 2 million registered voters for both national and local elections (again, according to Gov numbers as of 2019)

An awful lot more damaging to democracy than any proven cases of imposter voting - by an extremely large margin in fact.

See how easy it was - the numbers are all out there and freely available for all to check.
 
Again, just for clarity: if I don’t renew my passport, which I barely if ever use as I never go on holiday, then I may well lose my right to vote if the Tories continue down this obviously Trumpian/Republican path. I don’t have a driving license and being self-employed I obviously don’t need any work photo-IDs. I work from home so I need no railcard or whatever. I do have a volunteer ID from the museum where I bored people with unparalleled levels of historic computer nerdery once a week, but that is all I have, and it likely wouldn’t count. There will be hundreds of thousands, even millions in this exact same position.

Is being able to vote in a FPTP seat with a 100% certain outcome worth £80 to me for a passport I may never use (I never used the last ten year one I bought which is now about to expire)? No, I don’t think it is, so the Tory far-right can successfully disenfranchise people. Even middle class working/business-owning folk like me.


I wouldn’t worry too much Tony. Both our passports expired three years ago. Jean is still using her paper driving license so she has no photo id at all. Doesn’t bother us as neither of us has voted since before Brexit as we just can’t see the point anymore. They’re all lying conniving ba5tards.
 
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