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Scottish Politics

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An interesting thought exercise….

With Brexit being a largely England driven project what do you think would happen if the Tories came out campaigning for English independence. Cut away the drag anchors of Scotland, Wales and NI…and liberate Britannia to reconquer the globe.

I can easily see the Tories salivating at the prospect of a forever hegemony. I’m pretty sure they and their right wing pals could convince the “less sophisticated thinkers” to vote for it based on their usual promises and lies.

I reckon they could probably get 50% of the votes and pull it off. What say you?
There’s existing polling data among Tory voters in England re casting off the other nations should it be beneficial to Brexit.
Also agree with Steve’s post- the vaccine bounce Johnson enjoyed will pass, the economic damage from Covid and Brexit will consolidate and Johnson’s behaviour won’t change. The pork barrel politics and corruptness will continue to disgust not just Scots but broad sections of the other nations.
Sturgeon is a deft political operator who understands timing and there will be a period of maximum opportunity. It’s not here now but it’s coming.
 
I'd like to think you're right but I suspect that the Tories will be able to blame Covid for economic woes that may actually be caused by Brexit until the worst is passed. At least 10yrs I reckon.
The sleaze factor is not hitting home with English voters at all and let's face it, there's no viable opposition to make any dent.
The Tories will have to commit ritual suicide to loose power in England at this rate.
 
I'd like to think you're right but I suspect that the Tories will be able to blame Covid for economic woes that may actually be caused by Brexit until the worst is passed. At least 10yrs I reckon.
The sleaze factor is not hitting home with English voters at all and let's face it, there's no viable opposition to make any dent.
The Tories will have to commit ritual suicide to loose power in England at this rate.

The way things seem to be going, that’d be hailed as patriotic martyrdom and their ashes enshrined as rulers in perpetuity.
 
getting the country rid of nuclear warheads and energy production.

If 'we' get rid of nuclear power stations e.g. Torness and Hunterston what is going to power the baseload on days when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing? Burning lots of gas or, dare I suggest, importing 'dirty' energy from elsewhere.

I am not a fan of nuclear power but as the last few weeks have proven renewables alone don't work.

We need to be looking at 'filling' the Pentland Firth with such as the Orbital Marine turbines or tidal lagoon options. These can provide significant and consistent amounts go energy.

Regards

Richard
 
The way things seem to be going, that’d be hailed as patriotic martyrdom and their ashes enshrined as rulers in perpetuity.
It’s the mirror image of Trump’s GOP. The Tory Party is now hooked on short term populism but with added money printing. Their charismatic leader is essentially corrupt, incompetent and idle- reliant on photo opportunities, sloganeering and false promises (look at his social care claims as an example). They are letting Johnson’s mouth write cheques they won’t ultimately be able to cash.
 
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I can't see the Tories wanting to cast off any of the remaining elements of the Empire.

You've really got to love that. Scotland and Wales reinvented as downtrodden imperial possessions of the corrupt albion.

If 'we' get rid of nuclear power stations e.g. Torness and Hunterston what is going to power the baseload on days when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing? Burning lots of gas or, dare I suggest, importing 'dirty' energy from elsewhere.

I am not a fan of nuclear power but as the last few weeks have proven renewables alone don't work.

We need to be looking at 'filling' the Pentland Firth with such as the Orbital Marine turbines or tidal lagoon options. These can provide significant and consistent amounts go energy.

Regards

Richard

Have you not read about the new technology coming on stream that will allow us to encapsulate the power potential of midges, and turn it into sufficient energy to power the entire EU?
 
Looking at the vote shares, it’s arguable that there’s a mandate for a referendum, but there’s no clear mandate for Independence.

In both the constituency vote and regional list, the Pro-independence parties secured around 49% of the vote (Constituency: 47.7 SNP +1.3 Green; Regional: 40.3% SNP + 8.1% Green). That is better than current polling on Scottish independence (48% yes), but it is crucially less than the 50% + 1 vote that would be needed to pass a referendum.

My feeling is that two wrongs don’t make a right. While I think that Scotland can go it alone and succeed long term, I worry that if it were to leave the UK on a razor-thin Brexit-style margin, it would create division in the new nation that would hold it back. That isn’t how it should be done. My own feeling is that no referendum should be called until there is at least 60%, and preferably closer to 70%, of the electorate behind independence.
Spot on.

It's not really clear at the moment, especially as there is likely to be some element of pro-independence support amongst the Labour voters as well as from the SNP and Greens. You'd also need to add the Alba vote on the list as well (1.7%).

The mandate for a referendum is 100% there, but whether that would be won or not would depend very much on what happens between now and then and also how the campaigning went. At the moment it does look like it's probably around 50:50 though, which is why it was less of a priority in the election for the SNP than it was for the Tories, who's only campaign item was opposition to independence (and it was a strategy that clearly worked for them). The SNP's best route is to leave it for a couple of years until Covid is no longer masking Brexit, then call the referendum then. There will be plenty more visible corruption from the Tories by then, and still little prospect of Labour getting it's act together to become an opposition party than one that just rubber stamps anything Tory.
A mandate for a referendum is not there given the numbers that voted against the nationalists last week. Many people even voted against their core belief to stop the nationalists, according to you.

Any referendum needs to be now or not for many years. All this “I’ve wanted independence for years but not at this moment because we need UK help to manage covid” is laughable. You accept that help and the price is no referendum on independence, alternatively, you want to go, you go now. The tories should lay this on the line for the nationalists right now.


I think it was lunacy to allow Brexit to progress on such a tight margin and in the past I'd have preferred a decent margin in favour of independence before it went ahead, but given the shitshow that is Brexit and the Tories I'd now take any margin of victory. Given Brexit went ahead on such a slim margin then I don't think the UK government can realistically make a case that anything other than a simple majority is needed.
In that case you are willing to virtually ruin Scotland for many years. It’s another example of senseless emotion but you’ll be alright.

That brexit went ahead on a slim margin commits the UK govt to nothing in relation to a referendum in Scotland.
 
It’s the mirror image of Trump’s GOP. The Tory Party is now hooked on short term populism but with added money printing. Their charismatic leader is essentially corrupt, incompetent and idle- reliant on photo opportunities, sloganeering and false promises ( look at his social care claims as an example). They are letting Johnson’s mouth write cheques they won’t ultimately be able to cash.

They'll just dump him if/when he becomes a liability, which is why simply waiting for the Tories to implode is not a sensible policy.
 
You've really got to love that. Scotland and Wales reinvented as downtrodden imperial possessions of the corrupt albion.



Have you not read about the new technology coming on stream that will allow us to encapsulate the power potential of midges, and turn it into sufficient energy to power the entire EU?
Actually those midges you refer to (in association with block chain) supplied 97% of Scottish total electricity consumption last year and accounted for 25% of the UK’s renewable generation so Glasgow looks like a great place to hold the forthcoming UN Global Climate Change conference. It’s certainly going to further raise the profile of Nicola Sturgeon compared with Boris Johnson.
 
Actually those midges you refer to (in association with block chain) supplied 97% of Scottish total electricity consumption last year and accounted for 25% of the UK’s renewable generation so Glasgow looks like a great place to hold the forthcoming UN Global Climate Change conference. It’s certainly going to further raise the profile of Nicola Sturgeon compared with Boris Johnson.

In the news this morning we learn that Nicola is going to offer it free to the EU as a symbol of Scotland's undying love and subservience. Its progressive, you see.
 
Any referendum needs to be now or not for many years. All this “I’ve wanted independence for years but not at this moment because we need UK help to manage covid” is laughable. You accept that help and the price is no referendum on independence, alternatively, you want to go, you go now. The tories should lay this on the line for the nationalists right now.

Such a 'take it leave it, now or never' approach from Westminster-based Tories would be guaranteed to deliver a vote for independence. I doubt even Boris Johnson is quite that dumb.
 
If there’s no mandate for a referendum and no desire for independence, why should Johnson’s government be spending so much energy in trying to stop something that wont happen? Could it be that they’ve actually seen the election result and understand the trend in polling data?
Then, what is it that makes the voting pattern in Scotland such a pressing concern of one or two fishies who live in a different country. I mean they’re not going to vote because they cant. It reminds me of Brendan Behan’s famous quote-


“ ....like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.”
 
If 'we' get rid of nuclear power stations e.g. Torness and Hunterston what is going to power the baseload on days when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing?

It'll be bought from the foreign-owned nuclear power companies in England and Wales.
 
If there’s no mandate for a referendum and no desire for independence, why should Johnson’s government be spending so much energy in trying to stop something that wont happen? Could it be that they’ve actually seen the election result and understand the trend in polling data?
Then, what is it that makes the voting pattern in Scotland such a pressing concern of one or two fishies who live in a different country. I mean they’re not going to vote because they cant. It reminds me of Brendan Behan’s famous quote-


“ ....like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.”

I actually think that any vote should be weighted to some extent by an rUK plebiscite. The union does not, after all, belong exclusively to the Scots.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the referendum would be lost. There are, sadly in my view, no shortage of English people who would heartily love to get shot of the moaning Scots and what they see as their nasty, nippy, divisive leader.

Sturgeon is every bit as disliked this side of the border as BJ is on that.
 
^ Quite. Ultimately independence will pivot on demand for it in Scotland. Could you imagine Brussels telling Downing St ‘sorry you’re not allowed to leave, we don’t care if you have a majority’?
 
Have you not read about the new technology coming on stream that will allow us to encapsulate the power potential of midges, and turn it into sufficient energy to power the entire EU?

If only we could find a use for the b****y midges. As an east coast based kayaker I head over Invergarry way throughout the summer to catch the dam releases - the pleasure of kayaking is seriously offset by the presence of these insects. Strange how the Scottish tourist board never mention them when promoting tourism on the West Coast!!!!

Regards

Richard
 
It'll be bought from the foreign-owned nuclear power companies in England and Wales.

Given the current status of the UK wide nuclear power availability and age/ reliability of plant I don't think the Scottish government should be over reliant personally.

There are a great many issues an independent Scotland would have to consider and have workable/ affordable plans in place for. Security of electrical power should be pretty near the top, it's not something you can cross your fingers and hope over.

Aspiring to independence is one thing, delivering it in a workable form another.

I live here and have a vested interest in what happens in the future. We all need to ensure the rose tinted spectacles are cast aside and the serious questions properly addressed. I am not an expert but, IMHO, significant investment is required on several fronts to meet climate commitments. That will take more than just hosting COP26.

There does appear to be an appetite for independence I just don't believe it is anywhere near the top of an essential list of things that do need addressing. The UK as a whole needs to work towards some common objectives and we need to ensure the baby isn't thrown out with the bath water over certain issues. A great deal of time and effort will doubtless need to be expended on achieving a workable independence solution which may well deflect effort from other quarters.

Given the issues with the two new hospitals in the Central Belt and the fiasco that was the Edinburgh tram system I have to hope that things might be better in future?

Regards

Richard
 
I actually think that any vote should be weighted to some extent by an rUK plebiscite. The union does not, after all, belong exclusively to the Scots.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the referendum would be lost. There are, sadly in my view, no shortage of English people who would heartily love to get shot of the moaning Scots and what they see as their nasty, nippy, divisive leader.

Sturgeon is every bit as disliked this side of the border as BJ is on that.

Today's Telegraph:

Boris risks furious English backlash by throwing more money at Scotland
Most English voters couldn’t give a stuff if Scotland choses to leave the union - and a sizeable minority would positively welcome it.
 
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