Vanishing speakers - how do they do it?

[timpy]

Most speakers can do it when set-up correctly, so long as the speakers don't start doing anything to draw attention to themselves. I've found speakers that tend to have a "slow" bass struggle most. Port chuffing and HF sins of commission tend to draw the attention back to the boxes and ruin the illusion.

 

[JTC]

I’m never sure about ‘airiness’ in speakers. Real life sound isn’t ‘airy’ that way.

 

[Bairnstorm]

Most speakers can do it when set-up correctly, so long as the speakers don't start doing anything to draw attention to themselves. I've found speakers that tend to have a "slow" bass struggle most. Port chuffing and HF sins of commission tend to draw the attention back to the boxes and ruin the illusion.

Agree set up more important than speakers.

 

[camverton]

Omni’s don’t always “mess with the imaging” of properly done recordings (whatever they are). Mine clearly delineate and locate images and instruments, but they better present room sound and ambience than most other speakers. They don’t make a cavernous sound, they make a realistic sound.

Exactly right. A well set up pair of high quality omnis don’t give a cavernous effect unless it is a feature of a particular recording. Quite why people feel the need to perpetuate this myth is a bit of a mystery. It would be interesting to know of their actual experiences of omnis, how they were set up, or whether they have just heard them briefly at a hifi show. Your MBL and my German Physiks speakers aren’t particularly well represented in the UK which limits the chance people have to hear them and that may lead to armchair expertise of how people think they might sound!

I’ve just been listening to solo violin and the sense of Alina Ibragimova playing in front of me was palpable; three dimensional but precisely delineated in space with every detail of the way her bow passes over the strings clearly heard with absolutely no sense of the sound coming from a pair of speakers. Whilst acoustic classical chamber music sounds as if the performers have come to give me a personal performance at the end of my room, big orchestral music also works well and in this case it is as if the wall behind the speakers has been taken away with a view onto a concert hall. Obviously, the quality of the recording has a part to play.

Of course they aren’t the easiest type of speaker to accommodate; mine are about 2 m from the wall behind them. The other by-product of the DDD driver is that it is very revealing of the equipment before it and differences between DACs, which I previously sensed, are now very clear with a Chord m-scaler not just being a theoretical benefit but a clearly audible one.

So, cavernous as a quality of the speaker? Absolute nonsense!

 

[George J]

Recordings of orchestral music, if they have very definite localisation of specific instruments, need to have their imaging blurred, because real orchestras heard in concert halls don't sound like that.

It could be argued that such recordings are not made in the best way.

I find that so much stereo recording [of classical music] has precision to the imaging and pinpointing instrumental position that is not heard in concert.

Long ago I abandoned stereo as a format, and using one single ESL [57] gives very much the same arc for me as sitting in a good seat in the hall half way back. [The most expensive seats, usually as here the musical balances are best presented].

Perhaps the arc is about 15 degrees wide ideally. Imagine the stage width from a good seat.

The advantage of mono is that it avoids all the panning nonsense and lets you concentrate on the musical lines and balances. The musicians are just there somewhere in the middle in front of you! Close the eyes or listen in the dark to really bring this home.

Of course the original wider than tall ESL [57] was never designed as an idealised point source like the 63, and for mono no better speaker exists. Strangely the 57 often images so far behind the actual driver membrane that it can initially seem disconcerting that the music seems not to be connected with the speaker at all. This of course is determined by the recording style, rather than imposed by the speaker. If you close your eyes it is a very close approach to what real live music sounds like, except on really large choirs and huge orchestras, which I have never heard done convincingly in any situation. This does not worry me as I find it not my favourite style among what is called classical music. Say Scheonberg's Gurreleider or Mahler's Eighth.

On a solo instrument the effect is magical, like old Segovia with his classical guitar, or on a slightly larger [number of players] scale, a Bach Violin Concerto. It takes you right into the recording hall with that style of music making.

People used to conventional coned speakers in stereo do not always quite get it to start with! It seems less demonstrative, perhaps more relaxed, but that would be a mis-apprehension. All the detail is there, but in natural proportion.

Best wishes from George

 

[david ellwood]

People used to conventional coned speakers in stereo do not always quite get it to start with!

Its 40 years since I first heard ELS, and I’m still not getting it.

 

[slavedata]

The last Wigwam show I went to about 2 years ago the standout speakers were all Quad, ELS 57's, Stacked 57s and 63s. Just in a different leagues to anything else.
Those Physiks look amazing. I would love to hear a set in the flesh.

 

[narabdela]

People used to conventional coned speakers in stereo do not always quite get it to start with! It seems less demonstrative, perhaps more relaxed, but that would be a mis-apprehension. All the detail is there, but in natural proportion.

It's the old dichotomy between "accurate" and "hi-fi" George, which leads to the equally old "define accurate" discussion. It was ever thus.

You pays your money...etc.

 

[camverton]

The last Wigwam show I went to about 2 years ago the standout speakers were all Quad, ELS 57's, Stacked 57s and 63s. Just in a different leagues to anything else.
Those Physiks look amazing. I would love to hear a set in the flesh.

I guess that depends on where you live and how far you want to travel (and if mine, whether you have been double COVID jabbed!). I think there is a dealer in Scotland, one in London and another in Aldermaston. Not being near any of them, and not inclined to drive far these days, their international sales chap drove over to me from Cambridgeshire with no hint of obligation to buy. As it happened, the speakers sold themselves with Robert quietly sitting, no doubt amused by my occasional grunts and gurgles of delight along with the occasional f me!

My other favourite speaker type are electrostatics. The way the DDD driver interacts with the room is different and for me a noticeable and important difference is that the illusion of the performer is relatively more three dimensional, with the Quad 2812s that illusion is slightly flatter, more two dimensional, but still much more convincing to my ears than conventional cones. I suppose it all comes down to what we as individuals notice and what gives the best, most realistic illusion of music being played. Panels and omnis aren’t necessarily the best choice for everyone and if the “monitor’ style of presentation from a more conventional box speaker is preferred than the 8Cs are a great choice and worth auditioning.