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how much for a fuse,

stevec67 said:
You should repeat the experiment. I suspect you imagined the difference. A fuse doesn't do anything to the incoming supply, this is then transformed to a lower voltage, rectified to DC, smoothed, regulated, and drives the power rails. The physics of all of this is known the the nth degree, to ascribe an audible change to a fuse change is rewriting the laws of physics from Page 1.
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So be it. Imagined? That was my experience and it was repeatable. I remember the physics (BSC maths and physics). I am also a diver into metaphysics and phenomenology as a hobby, The fuses were both 13 amp 240v. I think Marbo do not exist these days so I can't repeat that experiment, and cant be bothered anyway,. At least I never fell into the clutches of the awful HiFi marketing machine.:D
 
herb said:
So be it. Imagined? That was my experience and it was repeatable. I remember the physics (BSC maths and physics). I am also a diver into metaphysics and phenomenology as a hobby, The fuses were both 13 amp 240v. I think Marbo do not exist these days so I can't repeat that experiment, and cant be bothered anyway,. At least I never fell into the clutches of the awful HiFi marketing machine.:D
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If you study physics and metaphysics then you'll be familiar with questioning the accuracy and precision of your measurements, and the reliability of the instruments. Ears are particularly unreliable, the computer that drives them even more so.
 
Mike Reed said:
This surely is earsay.
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Or earwax.

If human vision can be easily fooled, which it most definitely can be, then I think it's reasonable to assume that our hearing can be similarly fooled, and at the very least be affected by ambient temperature, air pressure, our mood, what we had for our dinner, etc.
 
mindlagoon said:
Or earwax.

If human vision can be easily fooled, which it most definitely can be, then I think it's reasonable to assume that our hearing can be similarly fooled, and at the very least be affected by ambient temperature, air pressure, our mood, what we had for our dinner, etc.
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If our hearing couldn't be fooled, then our hifi wouldn't work. The stereo image relies on fooling our hearing sense, after all.

What I think is in dispute is whether you can extrapolate from that, that our hearing is unreliable in the sense that it can't determine a small change, or that it may erroneously decide there has been a change due to other factors. We acknowledge that our senses are interlinked, they'd have to be, but the notion that because we are aware a change has occurred (new fuse, eg) we perceive a change in the sound, is, to my mind, a bit of a leap and I've not really seen that argument supported by evidence.
 
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There can never be any real/true evidence; as soon as the soundwaves leave the speaker cones and enters the air/room, its all up for subjective interpretation.
 
With all this 'does it make a difference?' stuff, I am reminded of my experience at the optician's several years ago. It was the usual slotting different lenses in and out, with accompanying 'is that clearer, or less clearer?' questions from the optician. After one particularly lengthy pause before my response, she said 'It's OK to say there's no difference at all, you know.'
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
If our hearing couldn't be fooled, then out hifi wouldn't work. The stereo image relies on fooling our hearing sense, after all.

What I think is in dispute is whether you can extrapolate from that, that our hearing is unreliable in the sense that it can't determine a small change, or that it may erroneously decide there has been a change due to other factors. We acknowledge that our senses are interlinked, they'd have to be, but the notion that because we are aware a change has occurred (new fuse, eg) we perceive a change in the sound, is, to my mind, a bit of a leap and I've not really seen that argument supported by evidence.
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It's not at all a leap to imagine that changes can be imagined. A new car always drives better than the old one, a new dress always makes your bum look less big, Boris Johnson's new suit actually fits him for a change. The mags have sponsored this kind of thinking for YEARS. You're an audiophile, you *know how to listen*, you have perception beyond that of the common herd, so you are able to appreciate these things. There's your driver for perceiving a difference right there. The minuite you say "Hmm, dunno, maybe it's better, can't really say" then you are stepping off the pedestal of goldeneared audiophile and joining (horror) the common herd.
 
It's conjecture. It may not be a 'leap' but we normally give 'stands to reason, dunnit' arguments short shrift here. Except this one.
 
It's conjecture that it applies in the circumstances described. And expectation bias is a term oft misused on here, and doesn't really mean what you imply it means, here. Which all suggests to me that you're just repeating a trope, rather than arguing from any position of genuine knowledge and understanding.

What it boils down to, is this:

"I can find no plausible technical explanation for what you perceive, therefore you probably imagined it. Here's a handy theory, which I'm not that familiar with, which fits my assumption and I'm not too bothered how well it fits."

You're probably familiar with the eye-rolling that genuine scientists give when lay people misappropriate their work. I vaguely recall some people with a genuine understanding of aspects of perceptual science, being rather more circumspect in their views. The confidence you display, suggests ignorance rather than deep understanding, sorry. People with a deep understanding rarely take an absolutist position.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
the notion that because we are aware a change has occurred (new fuse, eg) we perceive a change in the sound, is, to my mind, a bit of a leap and I've not really seen that argument supported by evidence.
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Maybe you need to look harder. I don't have a link handy, but this kind of thing has been extensively studied.
 
stevec67 said:
It's not conjecture. Expectation bias has been around since we climbed down out of the trees.
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Maybe the only reason we climbed down from the trees was because our predecessors' expectation to fly was ahead of its time. As they were somewhat anal, this could be called expectation by arse.

Cereal Killer said:
as soon as the soundwaves leave the speaker cones and enters the air/room, its all up for subjective interpretation.
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What about headphones?
 
mansr said:
Maybe you need to look harder. I don't have a link handy, but this kind of thing has been extensively studied.
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It's not me who needs to look. My comment is that those who routinely rely on this position rarely, if ever, cite any relevant evidence yet are among the first to demand it when the shoe is on the other foot. It's for them to offer it, not for me to go looking for something to support their unsupported arguments.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
It's not me who needs to look. My comment is that those who routinely rely on this position rarely, if ever, cite any relevant evidence yet are among the first to demand it when the shoe is on the other foot. It's for them to offer it, not for me to go looking for something to support their unsupported arguments.
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Two minutes with Google turned up this AES paper: http://www.acourate.com/Download/BiasesInModernAudioQualityListeningTests.pdf
Here's another: https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=11474
Would you prefer a book: https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Percept...heory,+Method+and+Application-p-9780470869246
 
You’re missing the point. Steve has a scientific bent, and probably scientific qualifications , but not in neuroscience, audiology, perception or similar fields. Therefore, when he says “you imagined it” (or similar) he is talking with no more authority than I am when I posit thoughts as to possible technical explanations.

I get pilloried for mine; he gets a pass for his. Such is the way of things.
 
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