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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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gavreid said:
I wouldn't argue with that - these demographic changes have been happening over a long period, just as some Tory voters have switched to Labour in parts of London. But all of that's on a much smaller scale...
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Agreed. I do think it is a mistake for people to focus so intently on Corbyn/not-Corbyn, to my eyes this is a structural failure. The party, no matter who leads it, can not possibly appeal to flag-waving nationalism and xenophobia at one extreme and ‘woke’ green liberalism at the other now the Tories are pure Trump/Tea Party and there are proper Greens on the ticket for all us ‘wokes’. I can not see any scenario where Labour doesn’t lose very significant votes at either end of it’s current attempted scope. It will never be Boris on a bulldozer ‘getting racism done’ (though the Overseas Ops bill was very close), nor will it ever be Caroline Lucas. The current strategy of wrapping itself in a flag and saying absolutely nothing is the worst of all possible worlds. It deserves today’s result.
 
Seanm said:
Labour have spent the last year de-activating supporters and I think that’s as least as big an issue as there being a lot of proto-fascists out there - although that is definitely a thing. A thing that you don’t counter with vapid managerialism.
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I agree to a degree. The way the party has handled things on a local level defies all logic (Liverpool being another spectacular example that I assume is still playing out), it is just bonkers, but I do think the key factor here is ‘intended scope’. If it is trying to appeal to both Express-reading hard-line Brexiters and to “woke” Green left Guardian-reading liberals like me there can only ever be fail as there is no middle ground upon which to meet. We each belong in entirely different categories and parties.

From a cold logical perspective the only way out of where we are as I see it is for the left as a coherent whole (Labour, Green, Lib Dem, PC, SNP etc) to accept we are in a situation of systemic failure and to move as a coherent whole to address that. My suggestion would be a shared manifesto pledge and election pacts with the sole purpose of implementing PR and then calling another fair election immediately afterwards. I can’t see any other way to combat the rise of the far-right. Without a functioning democracy the UK is lost.
 
Tony L said:
This can only be viewed as a really conclusive win for Trump/Tea Party politics in the UK. No one cares if a party steals £bns of your tax and hands it to mates and donors. No one cares if it kills your grandparents and brown neighbours with a combination of gross incompetence and crackpot conspiracy theory libertarianism. All that matters is the far-right nationalism. That is clearly what gets votes.

Very scary times. Sure, Labour are utter shit, and arguably always have been aside from a slight blip with Attlee back in the 40s, but a massive landslide for Trump/Bannon alt-right politics is still absolutely terrifying. This can only be viewed as an endorsement for a far-right nationalist oligarchy/kleptocracy.
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Welcome to the CHAOS...
 
I wouldn't write Labour off yet. Turning the Tory vote around since the last General Election was always going to be like turning a supertanker. The government, really NHS, vaccination program has been a huge success. The government got it right ordering lots of vaccine early. That's keeping people happy. But the Brexit reality hidden somewhat by Covid shutdowns is going to get worse. The backlash on cronyism, corruption and trampling roughshod across democratic process is mostly still only noticed by the chattering classes not the general public.

But the blatant way ministers are carrying on regardless lining their own and their mates pockets will start to register with the general public. Add to that the pathetic pay rise for NHS staff and dumping Grenfell tower costs on any poor sod living in a high rise rather than upset wealthy mate freeholders.

No government this corrupt can last long. I have faith that the Good Law Project is still the route that will see the Tories hammered in the polls.
 
Hartlepool has moved on from Brexit and is looking forward to the massive free-port project which is forecast to create 18,000 new jobs - one of the first big benefits of getting out of the protectionist, undemocratic EU racket.
And I suspect the traditional Labour voters there view the metro-woke tossers in London, who run the party, as a bunch of nutters. They probably don't care if there are statues of people who might have had some link to slave-trading 200 years ago. And are horrified at Sir Kneel Starmer jumping on the band wagon of marxist BLM. Starmer may have hidden some of the Corbyn loons in the broom cupboard in Westminster, but until he gets the party to adopt some good old fashioned centre-left policies that the voters in the North can see actually relate to the reality of their lives, rather than the nonsenses of the London set who can afford to worry about irrelevant rubbish, he will continue to spiral ever closer to the plug-hole of political obscurity.
 
slavedata said:
No government this corrupt can last long. I have faith that the Good Law Project is still the route that will see the Tories hammered in the polls.
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I wish I had your faith. The Hartlepool result is a disaster for Labour and I'm beginning to think that Starmer is a disaster too.
 
Jo Sharp said:
Hartlepool has moved on from Brexit and is looking forward to the massive free-port project which is forecast to create 18,000 new jobs
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LOL they will need a lot of those to deal with sharply reduced trade. Let's hope it doesn't follow the normal path of Boris projects once the headlines have served a purpose.
 
wylton said:
I wish I had your faith. The Hartlepool result is a disaster for Labour and I'm beginning to think that Starmer is a disaster too.
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I think Labour is such a disaster at the moment that any leader is going to struggle badly as it's just not possible to appease all the various interests that surround the party. Corbyn of course dug them into that hole a bit deeper, and I think Starmer is also making this worse by having decided on an approach of trying to appeal to the nationalists & racists they lost to the Tories at the last GE.

I'm struggling to see how Labour can be fixed now though, and certainly not in the short to medium term.
 
slavedata said:
No government this corrupt can last long. I have faith that the Good Law Project is still the route that will see the Tories hammered in the polls.
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Much as I hope your optimism turns out to be justified, this reminds me that an undergrad lecturer of mine described faith as belief minus evidence.
 
Mandelson was on R4 earlier. He was right in the reasoning Corbyn followed by Brexit & Covid & then Brexit again.

The French fishermen did a great job for BJ & may help Macron see off Le Penn.

I think some of the brains trust on here should take the reigns at Labour or launch a new party & we can have a glorious revolution.

As long as I can keep my middle class job & lifestyle we are golden.
 
Mandelson was another Labour disaster, he had his time and blew it; it would be best all round if he kept his mouth shut & Blair too for that matter.
 
Woodface said:
Mandelson was on R4 earlier. He was right in the reasoning Corbyn followed by Brexit & Covid & then Brexit again.
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wylton said:
Mandelson was another Labour disaster, he had his time and blew it; it would be best all round if he kept his mouth shut & Blair too for that matter.
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But this from Mandelson, which you can't really argue with - elections since 1979:
'Lose lose lose lose Blair Blair Blair lose lose lose lose'....
 
irons1965 said:
People knowing what Johnson is and voting for his party is the most depressing thing.
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Racism. Xenophobia. Nationalism. Theft of £billions of tax revenue. Sacrifice of the elderly, the handicapped and brown people for “the economy”/crackpot libertarian conspiracy theory. The breaking of UK and international law. Endless lies.

All perfectly fine, apparently.
 
Tony L said:
All perfectly fine, apparently.
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The problem you seem to have in the UK at the mo : find something better than that.

Much of Europe is turning green, if your Greens are stronger than the alt-right I might agree with you that abandoning FPTP could be a solution. Artificially blocking the Greens might look not so good from an international point of view, could the pressure finally come from outside ?
 
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