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Where to start with correcting my room

Neil P

Neil P

pfm Member
Hey folks. I've moved house ... and the oak floor (on concrete I think), bare walls, open fireplace ... have lead to a room with lots of echo. As I'm starting with a blank canvas, I would be intrigued to be able to measure and "see" the impact of different additions to the room. I have an android phone and windows laptop .... can someone recommend an app/microphone? My listening position won't vary, and the speakers won't be able to move very much (apart from toe in), but I'm hoping acoustic panels/bookshelves etc will help.
 
Room EQ Wizard is the software. A MiniDSP UMIK-1 is the microphone. Buy the mic, download REW, do some reading, enjoy the rabbit hole!

I would start off with broadband absorbers at the first reflection point (on the side walls between the listening position and the speakers, probably about a third of the way out from the speakers), and maybe bass traps in the corners behind the speakers.

The broadband absorbers made an enormous difference in my case. Really tightened up the imaging.

If you want to go further after this to reduce the liveliness of the room, add more diffusers at the second reflection points (next to the other ones), on the back wall, and the ceiling if you can get away with it. It all depends how far you want to go between "living room" and "recording studio" :p

Rugs and curtains won't make much difference.


P.s. well done for actually bothering with the most important aspect of hifi, rather than wasting money on things that make bugger all difference :D
 
booja30 said:
Get two old persian rugs. Mount one on a wall (behind you?) and put one on the floor. They'll pretty up the place and soak up a lotta sound. Something like this:

51156888237_a6bc8ef83c_h.jpg
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Don't bother with this. They won't absorb anything other than the very highest frequencies, unlike broadband absorbers. This will potentially make things more unbalanced as the lower frequencies still bounce around.

Absorption behind the speakers should be considered a finishing touch as well, not a first step.
 
REW and a UMIK-1 is a great shout, to see whats going on.

Once you have that, start by experimenting with a few pillows dotted around, or moving the sofa for example, and you can start to see what effects various changes have.

I have some GIK panels on the wall, really helps reduce echo keep the room sounding balanced.

Obviously a DSP solution is handy if you want to be able to make any changes on the fly, I have a MiniDSP 2x4HD which is great for this although other options are available.
 
Hcanning said:
Don't bother with this. They won't absorb anything other than the very highest frequencies, unlike broadband absorbers. This will potentially make things more unbalanced as the lower frequencies still bounce around.
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Many/most people here in the past have recommended rugs on the floors for minimizing reflection. And they look a lot better (IMO) than purpose made acoustical treatments. But you are of course entitled to your opinions.

Hcanning said:
Absorption behind the speakers should be considered a finishing touch as well, not a first step.
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My post said behind the listener.
 
I found that furnishing my room normally got rid of the "empty room" echo. I've had a couple of GIK traps for years, I sometimes move them around, never noticed much difference. GIK advise you need around 10 for most rooms...hmm.
 
Heckyman said:
II've had a couple of GIK traps for years, I sometimes move them around, never noticed much difference. GIK advise you need around 10 for most rooms...hmm.
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I've got 12 broadband panels (8 corner traps and 4 first reflection panels) and could still benefit from more. If I ever move into a house with stud walls I'd seriously consider incorporating broadband and tuned treatments into the walls so that the room doesn't look like a padded cell...
 
booja30 said:
Many/most people here in the past have recommended rugs on the floors for minimizing reflection. And they look a lot better (IMO) than purpose made acoustical treatments. But you are of course entitled to your opinions.
Click to expand...
That is not an opinion it is a fact that a rug will only have a very small frequency range where it works and still people don't stop recommending them as a general solution.

I have acoustic treatment (broadband absorption and mid-upper-bass-traps) and also used a big rug. With the rug the sound was totally dead and lifeless. After I removed the rug from the room the sound improved very much. Much more balanced.

The thing is that people don't want to a.) spend money on acoustic treatment or b.) won't use them because of their look or c.) because of both.

Therefore they only use rugs, furniture, plants and other usual stuff in rooms and think that they now have a proper acoustic treatment. It couldn't be fare away from the truth.

BTW: Egg shells were never and still aren't anything that work as an acoustic element. They are to hard and thin to have a good absorption and on top of that not a real good diffusor.
 
Thanks all. I'm intrigued to see what difference normal furnishings and rugs make. Any acoustic treatments will need to be discreet and few!
 
Old Shatterhand said:
That is not an opinion it is a fact that a rug will only have a very small frequency range where it works and still people don't stop recommending them as a general solution.

I have acoustic treatment (broadband absorption and mid-upper-bass-traps) and also used a big rug. With the rug the sound was totally dead and lifeless. After I removed the rug from the room the sound improved very much. Much more balanced.

The thing is that people don't want to a.) spend money on acoustic treatment or b.) won't use them because of their look or c.) because of both.

Therefore they only use rugs, furniture, plants and other usual stuff in rooms and think that they now have a proper acoustic treatment. It couldn't be fare away from the truth.

BTW: Egg shells were never and still aren't anything that work as an acoustic element. They are to hard and thin to have a good absorption and on top of that not a real good diffusor.
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Hey, weren't you the one who was crusading against rug discussion in the system pics last year? Still harboring the same feelings I see! :p
 
It depends on how far you want to go and the compromises you want to make with respect to improving the sound quality of the system in your room, which is very much a personal choice. Everyone has their own ways of getting it done.

I'll make it short.

For me, aftermarket specialty room treatment products such as absorbers, panels or large bass traps are only practical if the room is a dedicated listening/Home Theater room. However, they will still transform the room to look like a studio of some sort. For me, these things have no place in the living room or lounge due to the aesthetics, especially if space is tight (bass absorbers take up some space).

In my mind, nothing is perfect and as long as music sounds reasonably good to the ears ie. balanced sound with even bass, no echoes or bright piercing treble, that's good enough. A bit of room colouration is not too bad as it gives you the live feeling, and personally I prefer the colouration or imperfections. Live music sometimes does not require a perfect treated room or venue.

Going back to the issue. For starters, furnish your room as suggested by Heckyman if it's bare. It may resolve the echo in your room. If it doesn't then perhaps consider the advanced options as mentioned by few here.
 
Old Shatterhand said:
Therefore they only use rugs, furniture, plants and other usual stuff in rooms and think that they now have a proper acoustic treatment. It couldn't be fare away from the truth.
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I don't regard them as proper room treatment but they can be a good substitute to aftermarket room treatment products in alleviating acoustic issues to a certain extent. And they work within their limits.
 
I bought selection of random GIk stuff on eBay . Plonked it in and around the speakers. Ran dirac under 100k . Sound fine
 
booja30 said:
Hey, weren't you the one who was crusading against rug discussion in the system pics last year? Still harboring the same feelings I see! :p
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Yes I was and I still see no point as a "system component" status for a rug because every thing in a room has an influence on the sound.
To make this clear, I have absolutely nothing against rugs, from an optic point of view I like them. With a rug a room can look less steril and more cosy.

The matter of fact what rugs do acoustically isn't changed, rugs do only absorb some HF and if you make use of them to much, like showed in your pic, you will have dull HF and still (too) lively MF and BF.;)
 
ryder said:
It depends on how far you want to go and the compromises you want to make with respect to improving the sound quality of the system in your room, which is very much a personal choice. Everyone has their own ways of getting it done.

For me, aftermarket specialty room treatment products such as absorbers, panels or large bass traps are only practical if the room is a dedicated listening/Home Theater room. However, they will still transform the room to look like a studio of some sort. For me, these things have no place in the living room or lounge due to the aesthetics, especially if space is tight (bass absorbers take up some space).
Click to expand...

As I have said before, a.), b.) or both.:D

ryder said:
In my mind, nothing is perfect and as long as music sounds reasonably good to the ears ie. balanced sound with even bass, no echoes or bright piercing treble, that's good enough. A bit of room colouration is not too bad as it gives you the live feeling, and personally I prefer the colouration or imperfections. Live music sometimes does not require a perfect treated room or venue.
Click to expand...
You can't get an even bass without massive room treatment and/or DSP.;)

A live record will sound more natural and live in an acoustic treated room, a higher reverberation time and a (too) lively room will smear and muddy the sound. The live factor is on the record and there is no needed to add another room influence.

IMO many hifi fans fool themself into thinking that you can get great results without proper treatment also because it is way more interesting to switch cables instead of doing something that has as much influence as changing the speakers if not more.;)

Also the argument for the look of a studio in a living room isn't right. You can hide acoustic treatment but it will take effort.;)

I'm so influenced over the years of listening and living in an acoustic treated (living) room that I often get headache in normal modern rooms because of the high reverberation and echoes.:(
 
Never forget doing Scalford one year (Wigwam hifi show). Deal is you sleep in your room, then the staff come and pack the beds into the bathroom so you can fit in chairs etc. So got everything working nicely the night before. Came back after breakfast, room cleared, hi-fi now sounds impossibly bass-heavy. Had to retrieve mattress from bathroom and lean it against the wall! So you could try that?

Tim :)
 
Most traditionally furnished rooms will be fine, the main issues are always reinforcements in the low bass, which you an treat either actively or passively.
If your speakers have an off axis response which accurately reflects the on-axis, then limited range acoustic panels may actually be detrimental.
Acoustic measurement is the first step.
Keith
 
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