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Name a 'beautiful' amplifier.

Tony L said:
Given almost all the distortion in any audio system comes from the speakers the most logical approach is to view the amp and speakers as a unit and buy what matches best.
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I'd agree with that.. and then go further. Unless we are very very fortunate.. most of us have to fit our audio system into a home environment which is shared with partners, kids, pets, etc. Some of us have a separate listening room.. I wish...

So.. in my case.. I have limited space in which to fit speakers.. but by sheer good luck, found ones which not only sound good pretty much anywhere... but also work very well in my room... in the limited space available. They also seem relatively unfussy as to amps.. so although relatively insensitive by current standards..they have a highish overall impedance with no punishing dips. As such they worked well with IONs and of course the Papworths were more han capable of blowing them through the wall were I unwise with the controls.

However.. when I bought my LFD.. it was very likely to be my last amp, so I took extra special care. I home demmed several amps and the LFD came out as clear winner.. driving my speakers in my room. Tonal balance, imaging/soundstaging and clarity all shone. Amps which had sounded good in a dealership with 'similar' speakers to mine..fell flat on their arses in my system.

Find a speaker you can live with. Find an amp to drive it... And do a home dem..
 
h.g. said:
The mainstream is everything outside the tiny closed audiophile world. Consumer audio, pro audio, engineering, science, schools, universities, labs, etc... Like all groups that adopt extreme views the audiophile world had to largely isolate itself and look inwardly in order for the extreme views to be maintained. In the case of audiophiles many of the extreme beliefs require one to believe in things which science doesn't understand, cannot explain or cannot be measured. In the mainstream outside the audiophile world scientific knowledge is viewed as holding and audio circuitry to be well understood to the point of being largely a commodity handled by technicians rather than engineers.



I agree that many audiophiles chat about amplifiers that distort audibly. Not sure of the point though.



Do you consider those in the audiophile world that chat about audibly distorting amplifiers to be well informed with respect to scientific and technical knowledge on the subject or are they more poorly informed enthusiasts with some wonky beliefs keeping their distance from those with the expertise to write scientific and technical publications?

If you go back to the mid-to-late 70s and pick a decent 100W Japanese solid state amplifier. Is a modern decent 100W solid state amplifier better, worse or pretty much the same? What does that tell us? Now do the same with a pair of speakers. Conclusions?
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I’m not disputing your position. I think your objectivist viewpoint is absolutely valid. I actually lean objectivist in most categories of hi fi, especially cables.

what I’m objecting to is that _most_ hi fi people, at least moderately into the hobby, clearly understand that their amplification is, at the least, moderately additive.

I love 845 tubes and single ended amps. I know damn well that they’re colored. They still sound way more “human” and real in my room. I know that they are flawed, but for whatever reason, that flawed sonic signature sounds more like real in person music.

whether you’re cool with “colored” or are on the hunt for wire with gain, I don’t care. The vast majority in my experience want something that sounds pleasing to them
 
Tony’s certainly not wrong about the studio world: it is what goes on behind fabulous recordings worthy of ‘audiophile’ attention!
May I offer up the PYE PF91 as a worthy example of form and function governing the design process? These amps are laid out completely logically: transformers in opposite corners and at 90 degrees to each other, mains at one end, signal input within an inch of the valve grid pins at the opposite end, plenty of ventilation space and all mounted on a welded aluminium chassis. Wiring is of the tidiest order routed as a pragmatic compromise between shortest path and accessibility for maintenance, proper turret boards (about 2.5mm thick) and no repetition of colour coding.
Perhaps not aesthetically beautiful, but functionally of the highest elegance... oh, and they do sound good too - 1954.

 
Darmok said:
IMG-20190214-WA0019.jpg.1791d40334fe0ebc6483a428c7f9e33c.jpg


My VERY pretty girlfriend described my pair of Leak TL12.1's
standing side by side, up and running in a dim room as looking like city lights.

She did like the blue light emissions display caused by a bit of a soft quartet of Marconi / Osram KT66s.
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Great amplifiers the TL12.1's...
 
simonpyeman said:
Tony’s certainly not wrong about the studio world: it is what goes on behind fabulous recordings worthy of ‘audiophile’ attention!
May I offer up the PYE PF91 as a worthy example of form and function governing the design process? These amps are laid out completely logically: transformers in opposite corners and at 90 degrees to each other, mains at one end, signal input within an inch of the valve grid pins at the opposite end, plenty of ventilation space and all mounted on a welded aluminium chassis. Wiring is of the tidiest order routed as a pragmatic compromise between shortest path and accessibility for maintenance, proper turret boards (about 2.5mm thick) and no repetition of colour coding.
Perhaps not aesthetically beautiful, but functionally of the highest elegance... oh, and they do sound good too - 1954.

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Properly rebuilt these sound amazing...
 
Tony L said:
I take it you have very little first-hand experience or knowledge of the music or recording world?!
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Some but mainly at an engineering level rather than a technician level. Engineering acoustics has been a significant part of the day job for nearly 45 years and I take more interest in sound rather than electronics. Recording I understand fairly well because it is a tool I need to do my job even if my attempts to explain to audiophiles how to use a microphone to adequately measure a room response rarely seems to get across. I had access to a reasonable recording studio for 6 years but never used it for any of my own projects unlike facilities like anechoic and reverberation chambers. I don't have much interest in the creation of music although I have briefly touched on the engineering of musical instruments and teaching on a tonmeister course.

Tony L said:
PS To my mind it is you with the ‘extreme views’ as you seek to extrapolate comparatively little knowledge over fields you likely have little real contact with!
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Quite the opposite. I work in the mainstream world of engineering and acoustics which is a continuation of the scientific approach taught at schools and universities. It is the audiophile world that largely detached itself from the mainstream in the mid to late 70s in order to adopt extreme and conflicting magical beliefs. The pro and consumer audio worlds much less so although obviously there are exceptions like this.
 
jamesd said:
what I’m objecting to is that _most_ hi fi people, at least moderately into the hobby, clearly understand that their amplification is, at the least, moderately additive.
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If hi-fi means high fidelity rather than audiophile then pretty much by definition you are not correct. People are well aware that for 40+ years solid state amplifiers designed for high fidelity (competent technical performance) generally cannot be identified based on listening alone. Look how few audiophiles are prepared to publicly demonstrate they can if you want to get a feel for how widespread this knowledge might be among audiophiles. An amplifier designer has to choose to lower the technical performance to make the amplifiers identifiable from listening alone. Nothing wrong with this of course if that is what people want to buy but it is wrong to consider it normal.
 
tiggers said:
This thread has been great, for all the examples posted have led me to conclude there is no such thing as a beautiful amplifier!
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I think if you aren't lucky enough to have a dedicated listening room then the best looking amp is the one that can slink into the shadows and not irritate the other people that use the room.
 
h.g. said:
It is the audiophile world that largely detached itself from the mainstream in the mid to late 70s in order to adopt extreme and conflicting magical beliefs. The pro and consumer audio worlds much less so…
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I’m curious as to your definition of “consumer audio”? I assume you mean cheap Bluetooth speakers, TV sound bars, car stereos etc? Anything above that is us lot really.

You will find people who care about things and select subjectively in the high-end of pretty much every field. Hi-fi, photography, musical instruments, recording studio technology, cars, cycling, wristwatches etc. I can’t think of a single specialist field where the things you spend so much effort here railing against don’t exist to the same degree or more.
 
My dad has a Denon premium silver amplifier which is quite nice to look at.

Don’t think many will be able to afford this but The Devialet D-Premier amplifier is an absolute beauty.
 
TheDecameron said:
Graham, what do you put the SQ down to in the Leaks?
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I put it done to triode connected KT66's, paper block power supply capacitors, hard wired circuit with paper in oil coupling capacitors and very good quality output transformers. Properly rebuilt, a pair of these amplifiers can sound amazing. The Pye PF91 and the HF12 (very similar amplifiers) are also excellent. Some may have heard my pair of TL12 Point one's at one of the Chesterfield shows back in the 1990s driving a pair of 6 foot tall Posselt Albatross speakers. There was an article on these amps in Hi-Fi World magazine around the same time. I have a copy that I can publish on here if people would want to see it?
 
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G T Audio said:
I put it done to triode connected KT66's, paper block power supply capacitors, hard wired circuit with paper in oil coupling capacitors and very good quality output transformers. Properly rebuilt, a pair of these amplifiers can sound amazing. The Pye PF91 and the HF12 (very similar amplifiers) are also excellent. Some may have heard my pair of TL12 Point one's at one of the Chesterfield shows back in the 1990s driving a pair of 6 foot tall Posselt Albatross's. There was an article on these amps in Hi-Fi World magazine around the same time. I have a copy that I can publish on here if people would want to see it?
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^ yes please.
 
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