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Elsdon Wonfor Audio LS-40 speaker cables

Ok, so a quick (or not so quick ) update having hooked the LS-40's up last night and had a few hours of listening.

Firstly there's a much bigger difference than I was expecting - more so in frequency response than anything else. Big increase in mid and upper bass level, so much so that I've had to pull my speakers further out into the room to compensate. By contrast the mids and upper mids seem somewhat reduced and restrained in comparison. The bass is very detailed with good tonality and indeed so are the mids, with less stridency than I sometimes used to get which is welcome. Top end seems a little smoother too though also less sparkle than with my existing cables. There's similar soundstage and imaging but slightly more inner detail and I've noticed things, particularly in the bass that I hadn't noticed on recordings before. For some reason having read the previous reviews regarding increased "clarity" I was half expecting a bright or fatiguing sounding cable but that couldn't be further from the truth, indeed It's possibly too much the other way in my system.

If you'd asked me before this demo if I had any criticism of my current setup it would be that It's a bit forward sounding in the mids and upper mids and a bit lean in the upper bass. If I could dial in a couple of dB boost in the upper bass and couple of dB cut from about 2 to 6kHz it would be more balanced and neutral. The LS-40's seem to affect just these frequency ranges but by a much bigger amount than I would expect a simple cable change to make, sounding more like a 6dB boost and 6dB cut to my ears.

So if anything I've gone from a slightly forward sounding, to a slightly laid back sounding system with these cables. Makes me wonder if its possible to get a happy half-way house? Would be interested in anyone's compared the LS-40's to the LS-25's and whether the LS-25's are maybe a bit leaner sounding?
 
Well I have 25s now and I'm in line for the 40s.

I already have loads of bass with gobs of texture (track dependant of course). Will let you know in due course.
 
I just read Bronzeage's post back on page 4 and I think I'm hearing similar thing's to him. The LS-40's are very refined but I've lost some sense of excitement and I'm finding some lead instruments saxophones, acoustic guitar's etc a bit recessed. He initially preferred the LS-25's on some tracks.
 
OldSkool said:
I just read Bronzeage's post back on page 4 and I think I'm hearing similar thing's to him. The LS-40's are very refined but I've lost some sense of excitement and I'm finding some lead instruments saxophones, acoustic guitar's etc a bit recessed. He initially preferred the LS-25's on some tracks.
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This is true. I liken this to hearing through your TV vs your speakers, that thin brightness and lack of bass makes it sound faster and more exciting in some ways, but once you adjust, for me at least, I found it impossible to go back. While having both the 40 and 25, I had to change amps, and I found the 40 scaled up better than the 25.

I suggest you listen for a long while with the 40, then go back to the 25, and then decide which one suits you best.
 
Similar to me, I use a 7.5m and a 5.5m run of the excellent (TQ Black beating by a long margin!) EWA LS 20! Only wish I could afford to go to the 25!!
 
Rajive Aggarwal said:
A change this big ought to be easily measurable. Just speculating, but the change might be due to phase differences between the current and new cables?
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Yes you would think so - I'm an electronics engineer and would be half tempted to try to measure the difference with pink noise, a microphone and spectrum analyser - just don't have the equipment or time!

To be fair I've found big differences with some speaker cables in the past despite my findings going against my basic engineering expectations. They can sometimes seem to be as fundamental as any other component in the system, perhaps even more so and should be considered part of the loud speaker.

It does also make me wonder what effect the length of a given cable would subjectively have?

My current cables are 5m, these LS-40's are 3.2m (I measured them!). I had 5m NACA 5 in the past which had more in common with my current Ecosse cable sound. I also had 3.5m Chord Epic and 2m Chord signature. I'd say these LS-40's sound somewhere between Chord Epic and Signature in sonic footprint, I found the Signatures the darkest sounding and the NACA5 the most forward sounding.
 
OldSkool said:
I had 5m NACA 5 in the past which had more in common with my current Ecosse cable sound. I also had 3.5m Chord Epic and 2m Chord signature. I'd say these LS-40's sound somewhere between Chord Epic and Signature in sonic footprint, I found the Signatures the darkest sounding and the NACA5 the most forward sounding.
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Interesting observations. I read your posts several times to have a clearer picture on the impact of all speaker cables in your system. I understand experiences may differ as all systems are different.

From your list of cables, I have used Chord Epic, Signature XL and NACA5 in my system. I owned the Epic for about 2 years before I traded them in for the Signature XL. I still have the NACA5 in my closet. Both Chord cables are 4m in length, NACA5 is 3.5m.

Whilst I agree the NACA5 is a forward sounding cable, I feel the forwardness is contributed by the mid or upper bass drive which sticks out like a sore thumb more than the rest of the cables. The NACA5 also has a slight unrefinement across the frequency spectrum. I find the treble of the NACA5 slightly dull with less airiness in comparison to Chord Epic.

I assume the Chord Signature you tried is the older version. The Signature XL that I currently use in my system is far from dark sounding. It is surely a more revealing and neutral sounding speaker than both Epic and NACA5. The clarity and transparency of the Signature XL made both NACA5 and Epic sound dull and congested in comparison.

From your description it appears that the LS40 is darker in sound than Chord Epic, Ecosse MS2.3 and NACA5 in that order. Just to be sure, does dark correspond to a warm presentation in the overall frequency spectrum ie. reduced or rolled-off treble, warm mids etc.
 
ryder said:
Interesting observations. I read your posts several times to have a clearer picture on the impact of all speaker cables in your system. I understand experiences may differ as all systems are different.

From your list of cables, I have used Chord Epic, Signature XL and NACA5 in my system. I owned the Epic for about 2 years before I traded them in for the Signature XL. I still have the NACA5 in my closet. Both Chord cables are 4m in length, NACA5 is 3.5m.

Whilst I agree the NACA5 is a forward sounding cable, I feel the forwardness is contributed by the mid or upper bass drive which sticks out like a sore thumb more than the rest of the cables. The NACA5 also has a slight unrefinement across the frequency spectrum. I find the treble of the NACA5 slightly dull with less airiness in comparison to Chord Epic.

I assume the Chord Signature you tried is the older version. The Signature XL that I currently use in my system is far from dark sounding. It is surely a more revealing and neutral sounding speaker than both Epic and NACA5. The clarity and transparency of the Signature XL made both NACA5 and Epic sound dull and congested in comparison.

From your description it appears that the LS40 is darker in sound than Chord Epic, Ecosse MS2.3 and NACA5 in that order. Just to be sure, does dark correspond to a warm presentation in the overall frequency spectrum ie. reduced or rolled-off treble, warm mids etc.
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I was probably being a bit over simplistic by saying darker or forward sounding as there were other subtleties too. I had Epic for a couple of years and it worked really well with a NAP200, much preferable to NACA 5. Your description of NACA 5 sounds similar to my impression, I'm not a fan of it really, it's only positive characteristic IMO is that it does PRAT really well. The Ecosse also does PRAT really well but with much more detail, refinement and soundstage, partly due to being more airy. I switched to Ecosse when I changed to the Avondale amp as it is more relaxed sounding than the NAP200 and the Epic was too much of a good thing with it. The Signatures I tried were the original version and I only had them briefly before going to Ecosse. Really didn't get on with the signatures, a very bass heavy sound which seemed to sap the life out of the music. I was surprised at the time as I was expecting them to be brighter if anything based on reviews, which would have moved my sound in the right direction at the time.

One thing that might be relevant is that the Epos speakers are a 3 way design with have no crossover network, just a capacitor for the tweeter. It may be that the lack of an electronic filter network (inductors, resistors, capacitors) makes them more susceptible to the characteristics of the cable?
 
OldSkool said:
I just read Bronzeage's post back on page 4 and I think I'm hearing similar thing's to him. The LS-40's are very refined but I've lost some sense of excitement and I'm finding some lead instruments saxophones, acoustic guitar's etc a bit recessed. He initially preferred the LS-25's on some tracks.
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l thought that initially then was drawn in by the sheer smoothness of sound and the musical nature of the LS40- never heard cables make that much of a difference in my system before.
 
Tarzan said:
l thought that initially then was drawn in by the sheer smoothness of sound and the musical nature of the LS40- never heard cables make that much of a difference in my system before.
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Why would it make such a huge difference? I am aware that cables can make very small differences but what you say leads me to believe the cable alters something other than just sound. Do they incorporate a passive resistor network/parts somewhere along the cable?
 
RoA said:
Why would it make such a huge difference? I am aware that cables can make very small differences but what you say leads me to believe the cable alters something other than just sound. Do they incorporate a passive resistor network/parts somewhere along the cable?
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Here we go...25 pages in before they began to descend, was a good innings!
 
flutteringwow said:
Here we go...25 pages in before they began to descend, was a good innings!
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Why? Straight forward question. Does the cable incorporate some components other than those usually found in a cable? Nothing wrong if it does, surprising if it doesnt.
 
RoA said:
Why would it make such a huge difference? I am aware that cables can make very small differences but what you say leads me to believe the cable alters something other than just sound. Do they incorporate a passive resistor network/parts somewhere along the cable?
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No idea- do not care what is in it you may have to ask the designer all l know they just sounded amazing and will be purchasing a pair when l have the dosh.:)
 
Tarzan said:
No idea- do not care what is in it you may have to ask the designer all l know they just sounded amazing and will be purchasing a pair when l have the dosh.:)
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Fair enough and you have tried them, I have not. Personally I would want to know why something as simple as a cable can alter sound to such an extent (or ... how other cables neuter sound and this one doesnt). There are other examples of cables that have some passive components other than a cable/jacket and some prefer it.

Perhaps the manufacturer cares to comment?
 
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