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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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droodzilla

pfm Member
Cheers everybody!

https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1385667111348056066

Ezrg3SyXIAEOHzP


Looks like summat Coldwar Steve would knock up but, sadly, it's real.
 
Good grief. EDLtastic. Where’s Emily Thornberry when you need her? She’s the only one I can think of in the party who at least attempted to stand up to ugly nationalist flag-waving.

PS I’m surprised at Rayner’s lack of nuance, I’d always given her the benefit of the doubt as she likes Echo & The Bunnymen.
 
Good grief. EDLtastic. Where’s Emily Thornberry when you need her? She’s the only one I can think of in the party who at least attempted to stand up to ugly nationalist flag-waving.

PS I’m surprised at Rayner’s lack of nuance, I’d always given her the benefit of the doubt as she likes Echo & The Bunnymen.

One flag on St George's Day? In a pub? o_O Not exactly Nuremberg.

This is why Sir Keir has to (clumsily) pretend to love flags. So that people who like the national flag(s) don't think Labour are full of communists.
 
going off at a tangent for which apologies, but, not having made any attempt to look 'into' it, for fear of what I might find, I hope there's no question of any element within the Green party beginning to align itself with far-right extremism - which I understand is making connections with environmentalists etc (I mean ... where isn't it, but ...)?
 
going off at a tangent for which apologies, but, not having made any attempt to look 'into' it, for fear of what I might find, I hope there's no question of any element within the Green party beginning to align itself with far-right extremism - which I understand is making connections with environmentalists etc (I mean ... where isn't it, but ...)?

That seems about as likely as communists infiltrating the 1922 Committee.
 
It’s a very small party and the leader is extremely slick, but there are some cranks. If it suddenly blew up and got a lot of attention some interesting stuff would come out I’m sure.
 
That seems about as likely as communists infiltrating the 1922 Committee.

yes , 'ecofascism', that, indeed, was the term.

sad to say, but I don't think right-wing extremism would have to try and dig too hard to find fertile ground in Libertarian / alternative life-style areas.

and isn't it well-intentioned for labour / 'left-wing' movements to try and 'reclaim' such as the flag imagery from a right-wing monopoly? I would hope that's what they claim, rather than any implied sympathising with the sentiment behind hatemongering populism?
 
yes , 'ecofascism', that, indeed, was the term.

sad to say, but I don't think right-wing extremism would have to try and dig too hard to find fertile ground in Libertarian / alternative life-style areas.

and isn't it well-intentioned for labour / 'left-wing' movements to try and 'reclaim' such as the flag imagery from a right-wing monopoly? I would hope that's what they claim, rather than any implied sympathising with the sentiment behind such hatemongering populism?

Sorry, but to me this sounds like a right wing attempt to associate something they don’t like with bad things by asking questions, the actual answer to which is simply ‘no’.

It’s a bit like Ancient Aliens - ‘Does this cave painting prove that aliens once walked among us?’. No.

Kind of a spin on straw man arguments, based on there being a vaguely plausible but very often actually unsubstantiated link between certain cereal plants used to make straw and something dire.

Perhaps I’m hopelessly naive.
 
from my perspective and personal experience Dave***t, yes you may well be.

But then I was over-generalising and vague-ifying in a typically frightened and ineffectual way I guess.
 
Anyone have a clue what Labour is thinking in Hartlepool?

https://twitter.com/PaulWilliamsLAB/status/1386227296130973697

I mean, they're trying to hammer the Tories on "sleaze" (call it corruption, I say) so why feature twice-digraced Mandelson so prominently in this campaign video? I find it hard to believe the guy who once said working class voters in the North had "nowhere else to go" is remotely popular in Hartlepool.

I know I'm down on Labour anyway these days but surely, by any objective standard, this is ****ing nuts.
 
Anyone have a clue what Labour is thinking in Hartlepool?

https://twitter.com/PaulWilliamsLAB/status/1386227296130973697

I mean, they're trying to hammer the Tories on "sleaze" (call it corruption, I say) so why feature twice-digraced Mandelson so prominently in this campaign video? I find it hard to believe the guy who once said working class voters in the North had "nowhere else to go" is remotely popular in Hartlepool.

I know I'm down on Labour anyway these days but surely, by any objective standard, this is ****ing nuts.
On a lighter note, I can't resist sharing this Mandelson related video:

https://twitter.com/BeardedGenius/status/1332412073016496131
 
Cheers everybody!

https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1385667111348056066

Ezrg3SyXIAEOHzP


Looks like summat Coldwar Steve would knock up but, sadly, it's real.

This is why the Labour Party needs to be consigned to history.

It once had a purpose and pushed forward many great reforms. Now when you peel away the thin veneer you find the same reactionary old core as the Tories.
The membership are a varied bag, many good folk among the (now rapidly collapsing) membership but the party machine, PLP and many of the union bureaucracies it relies upon are inherently reactionary.

Several chances have emerged over the past century to transform Labour into a genuine party of the left but I came to the conclusion recently that it's simply too embedded into the state machine - the forces we see align to maintain the position of Labour as the stop valve for the Tories are enormous.
 
This is why the Labour Party needs to be consigned to history.

It once had a purpose and pushed forward many great reforms. Now when you peel away the thin veneer you find the same reactionary old core as the Tories.
The membership are a varied bag, many good folk among the (now rapidly collapsing) membership but the party machine, PLP and many of the union bureaucracies it relies upon are inherently reactionary.

Several chances have emerged over the past century to transform Labour into a genuine party of the left but I came to the conclusion recently that it's simply too embedded into the state machine - the forces we see align to maintain the position of Labour as the stop valve for the Tories are enormous.
I think you ask a fundamental question, what is the about Party for? If you asked any other party what they’re for, they’d stand proud and tell you. In an interview the blue tie would be around an expanded cheats and stand by principles of Individual Liberty, Aspiration, Entrepreneurship, Opportunity, Family, Flags and National Pride. The Labour Party was once upon a time a party that stood for the working man, the welfare of the less well off and democratic change. But I fear that in an interview the red tie would hang limp for fear that any mention of a leftish principle would result in the rest of the interview being taken up with questions about Corbyn.

The only place Labour has to go is further to the right, which might be what those in charge want, but it seems predicated on the negatives of the Tories screwing up rather than anything positive Labour has to say about itself
 
But I fear that in an interview the red tie would hang limp for fear that any mention of a leftish principle would result in the rest of the interview being taken up with questions about Corbyn.

Whilst partly true the Labour Party has always had a very socially conservative and highly authoritarian mindset. It has been this way all my voting life which is why I have largely avoided it. Now the alt-right Brexit project has put xenophobia and fear of the ‘other’ so firmly back on the map the party is back waving nationalist flags again for fear of losing the racist vote in places like Hartlepool. Part of Labour’s problem is unquestionably part of its voterbase. If it can lose votes to far-right racists like Farage it has a problem that extends way beyond arseholes in the PLP.
 
Whilst partly true the Labour Party has always had a very socially conservative and highly authoritarian mindset. It has been this way all my voting life which is why I have largely avoided it. Now the alt-right Brexit project has put xenophobia and fear of the ‘other’ so firmly back on the map the party is back waving nationalist flags again for fear of losing the racist vote in places like Hartlepool. Part of Labour’s problem is unquestionably part of its voterbase. If it can lose votes to far-right racists like Farage it has a problem that extends way beyond arseholes in the PLP.
Yes. The Labour Party has, by it’s own actions, put itself in the position that it can only move right, and that is very much Tory high ground. Politics is moving right and Labour has ground to make up in the race for the right. But it is never going to be right enough for the people who like that sort of thing. Labour seems to be hoping that the Tories will self destruct and they’ll be left standing to pick up votes by default.

Seems unlikely. And a bit unsavoury
 
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