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All purpose football thread 20-21 season II

Local match-attending fans of the Big 6 have been described as "legacy supporters" by the owners of their clubs. The inference being that the intention is to fully globalise the team via the ESL. Fans realise this is another step in their Club being taken away from them. This is from four years ago but very pertinent to all of the top tier of football (may require a Translator ;)):

Ask a lot of fans now and they would go for the (admittedly not perfect) German League format.
 
Weekender said:
No it would not be more rewarding. It would be pointless without the "big 6". I want to see my team get stuffed every season at Old Trafford and Anfield.*
The CL would not continue without the ESL teams or would be similary devalued as a "big 6"-less Premier League.
*Yes I know - I'm kinky.
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But is that how it would have played out? The Premier league was successful in breaking away because the FA didn't cut them off from the pyramid below. In this case there is a fair chance the breakaway clubs would have been cut off. They may well keep going in their entertainment league but the perception that they were the top teams in football and contained the best players would rapidly disappear. I could see older footballers prior to retirement opting to cash in playing in the entertainment league rather than the competitive ones. Not sure it would have been a particularly bad thing unless you were a serious rather than an armchair supporter of one of the top 6. What would have been a bad thing for football would have been allowing the 6 to continue to playing in the top division of the pyramid while avoiding commitments to various competitions.
 
h.g. said:
But is that how it would have played out? The Premier league was successful in breaking away because the FA didn't cut them off from the pyramid below. In this case there is a fair chance the breakaway clubs would have been cut off. I could see older footballers prior to retirement opting to cash in playing in the entertainment league rather than the competitive ones. Not sure it would have been a particularly bad thing unless you were a serious rather than an armchair supporter of one of the top 6. What would have been a bad thing for football would have been allowing the 6 to continue to playing in the top division of the pyramid while avoiding commitments to various competitions.
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For me both scenarios (separate ESL or a ESL with Big 6 playing weakened teams in the PL*) would be very distasteful.
* this is already happening.
h.g. said:
They may well keep going in their entertainment league but the perception that they were the top teams in football and contained the best players would rapidly disappear.
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Don't agree with that. With the amount of money J P Morgan were putting up the best players would go...it's all hypothetical now.
 
windhoek said:
So were the ESL teams going to withdraw from their normal domestic and continental competitions and just play each other in a new ESL format? If so, given the quality of players at each ESL team, I'm sure the games would be very competitive. Were ESL teams going to play in the ESL in addition to all other competitions?

(I'm in agreement about darts, it's not my cup of tea either.)
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The ESL wanted to continue in domestic competitions but were quickly told :
FIFA who control international football said all ESL players would be banned from representing countries.
UEFA who control national leagues said all ESL teams would be banned from all competitions run by them or affiliated to them, so no premier league or national cup competitions.
 
Weekender said:
Local match-attending fans of the Big 6 have been described as "legacy supporters" by the owners of their clubs. The inference being that the intention is to fully globalise the team via the ESL. Fans realise this is another step in their Club being taken away from them. This is from four years ago but very pertinent to all of the top tier of football (may require a Translator ;)):

Ask a lot of fans now and they would go for the (admittedly not perfect) German League format.
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Really?
A league where Bayern are about to win the league for the 9th consecutive season, a period where the premier league has been won by 5 different clubs.
 
Weekender said:
Absolutely agree - which is why we need more regulation.
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Problem is, it's a worldwide sport. You can regulate here or even with the international FA but every country has their own regs. If regulations limit profits in one place everyone will just move to the place that doesn't. I've been saying for years that there should be salary caps for every team. If this was followed worldwide it would work but it will never happen.
 
Weekender said:
1
Not Amazon then:
EzbAWQGUYAMR0id

...for the moment...
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So who was actually supplying the funds to make this viable?
 
boneman said:
Problem is, it's a worldwide sport. You can regulate here or even with the international FA but every country has their own regs. If regulations limit profits in one place everyone will just move to the place that doesn't. I've been saying for years that there should be salary caps for every team. If this was followed worldwide it would work but it will never happen.
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The other issue is profiteering. Big business has realised that profits can be extracted from a (only) relatively small number of teams, hence the drive to ever increase the cash flow to these sides. The current (almost farcical) financial fair play rules are to be ripped up because of covid but I'm not hopeful that anything sensible will emerge there's just too much vested interest.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...play-rules-to-be-ripped-up-after-covid-crisis
 
Weekender said:
Don't agree with that. With the amount of money J P Morgan were putting up the best players would go...
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This doesn't happen now until a player approaches retirement. A player becomes famous by rising to the top in the competitive leagues. They can then cash in that fame for a year or two in the less competitive American, Chinese, Japanese, African or whatever leagues. The notion that an independent entertainment league of a few fixed teams would be perceived as the best while a huge world wide competitive pyramid exists is not going to happen at least for the more committed football fans. I would expect it to pan out something more like the Harlem Globetrotters in basketball.
 
h.g. said:
This doesn't happen now until a player approaches retirement. A player becomes famous by rising to the top in the competitive leagues. They can then cash in that fame for a year or two in the less competitive American, Chinese, Japanese, African or whatever leagues. The notion that an independent entertainment league of a few fixed teams would be perceived as the best while a huge world wide competitive pyramid exists is not going to happen at least for the more committed football fans. I would expect it to pan out something more like the Harlem Globetrotters in basketball.
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It's all hypothetical for the moment but consider the teams that were going to be a part of the Super League...Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Spurs. You can't just take them out of the English game and call them "a few fixed teams" and the people remaining "the more committed football fans." It does not make sense...these Clubs have huge followings with proud histories and roots in their communities...and rivalries to a greater or lesser extent with other domestic Clubs that cannot simply be severed.
 
h.g. said:
The notion that an independent entertainment league of a few fixed teams would be perceived as the best
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All the founding clubs would have the steady revenue from match day streaming / TV rights to better position them to keep/buy all the top level players, it becomes an eco-system of big names attracting sponsorship, which in-turn brings in more money. Are we saying with all the best and MVPs in the same arena, there is no ground for competition?

The current system which is dictated by UEFA is the top 20+ clubs per country needs to bust their guts for 38 games and only 4 of them can make it into the CL. And from then on, most of the teams are effectively KO'ed in 3 games - you do not get assured revenue for those games - and usually the same 3-4 teams wins the competition each year. WHY are fans happy to put up with this but not the ESL?
 
Anh said:
The current system which is dictated by UEFA is the top 20+ clubs per country needs to bust their guts for 38 games and only 4 of them can make it into the CL. And from then on, most of the teams are effectively KO'ed in 3 games - you do not get assured revenue for those games - and usually the same 3-4 teams wins the competition each year. WHY are fans happy to put up with this but not the ESL?
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A lot of fans are not happy with the CL...and with football as a whole - even fans of the Big 6.
Perhaps one of the outcomes from this is that the spending of the likes of Real and Barca will be brought down.
 
Anh said:
All the founding clubs would have the steady revenue from match day streaming / TV rights to better position them to keep/buy all the top level players, it becomes an eco-system of big names attracting sponsorship, which in-turn brings in more money. Are we saying with all the best and MVPs in the same arena, there is no ground for competition?

The current system which is dictated by UEFA is the top 20+ clubs per country needs to bust their guts for 38 games and only 4 of them can make it into the CL. And from then on, most of the teams are effectively KO'ed in 3 games - you do not get assured revenue for those games - and usually the same 3-4 teams wins the competition each year. WHY are fans happy to put up with this but not the ESL?
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The whole closed ecosystem prevents any kind upward mobility, at the moment the smaller clubs in the PL and their European equivalents at least have a chance of finishing in a CL qualifying spot, where a good run can do absolute wonders for their finances, just like a good FA Cup run can fund a team from the lower echelons for a good couple of seasons.

The ESL would effectively disenfranchise these clubs from any kind of meaningful advancement.
 
webster said:
Chelsea mid table pre-Abramovich?
I think you need to do a little more research.;)
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I wasn't just talking about Chelsea, but if you are routinely outside the top 4 or outside the relegation zone, you are mid-table.

Chelsea finishing league position prior to Abramovich, only 2 strong seasons. Also bear in mind back then, only Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool were the closely competitive at the time.

2001/2002 Premiership 6
2000/2001 Premiership 6
1999/2000 Premiership 5
1998/1999 Premiership 3
1997/1998 Premiership 4
1996/1997 Premiership 6
1995/1996 Premiership 11
1994/1995 Premiership 11
1993/1994 Premiership 14
1992/1993 Premier League 11
 
Rob998 said:
The ESL would effectively disenfranchise these clubs from any kind of meaningful advancement.
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I can't see why UEFA would cease the CL or whatever it would be re-branded as for the non ESL clubs to complete in. Perhaps it would be amalgamated with the Europa league?

If clubs can generate steady / clean revenue from viewings rather than underbelly gotten gains by their owners other operations - I am all for that.
 
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